Is your build the minimum standard?

building-expert · Feb 03, 2014 6:31 am

Many people don't realise that signing up with a builder that does not have a display home loose out on a standard for reference. What are they buying? A promise in the cloud?

If then you have not made up for it in contract specification everything will refer to the minimum standard.

ausdesign · Feb 11, 2014 10:03 am

I can see where you're coming from but many smaller builders that I design for without 'display homes' are more than willing to provide contact details of clients, with their permission, to view homes that they have constructed so that potential clients can view their work.
This gives a two-fold advantage of being able to inspect the quality of workmanship plus talk to the owners one on one as to the relationship they had with the actual builder.
This is possibly a crucial aspect where franchise building comes into play.

building-expert · Feb 11, 2014 3:56 pm

ausdesign

I can see where you're coming from but many smaller builders that I design for without 'display homes' are more than willing to provide contact details of clients, with their permission, to view homes that they have constructed so that potential clients can view their work.
This gives a two-fold advantage of being able to inspect the quality of workmanship plus talk to the owners one on one as to the relationship they had with the actual builder.
This is possibly a crucial aspect where franchise building comes into play.

Great point Peter. Obviously that can work very well however checking the quality (several times) during the build and on completion by comparison with display (a house that is occupied and furnished) may be inconvenient and may become annoying for the owners

I was also concerned with builders that either do their own designs (with unqualified draftees) and many do not necessarily employ professional designer either in house or out sourcing it. So you can have a double whammy of poor design plus lack of display that easily becomes a triple whammy with poor execution.

There are many small builders that will employ professional designer such as Peter and will get a quality design but equally there are many that do not so you have to be careful and yes there are many smaller builders that do a good job despite not having a display home but your trick is to get the right one.

wood bang · Feb 12, 2014 12:57 pm

Shouldn't the finish quality be all specified in the specifications?

For all my projects and also to obtain construction certificate a specification needs to be supplied, it will reference to all relevant standards and requirements.

ausdesign · Feb 12, 2014 4:23 pm

wood bang

Shouldn't the finish quality be all specified in the specifications?

It would depend upon how specific the specifications were.
If I was building a home based upon seeing a display home I would have a stipulation in the contract that the finish is to be to the quality of the display home.

SaveH2O · Feb 12, 2014 4:30 pm

ausdesign

If I was building a home based upon seeing a display home I would have a stipulation in the contract that the finish is to be to the quality of the display home.

Great idea but I wonder as to how many builders would agree to the clause.

seano · Feb 12, 2014 5:03 pm

ausdesign

wood bang

Shouldn't the finish quality be all specified in the specifications?

It would depend upon how specific the specifications were.
If I was building a home based upon seeing a display home I would have a stipulation in the contract that the finish is to be to the quality of the display home.

What if the quality of the display home is terrible?

A building inspector would have a field day with the Rawson homes display in Orange for example! We were shocked.

Ultimately I expect quality of work to match what a builder or contractor would do in their own house.

tezzab · Feb 12, 2014 5:45 pm

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Ultimately I expect quality of work to match what a builder or contractor would do in their [/quote]

Careful what you wish for Grasshopper seano... Will you see the cars of many mechanics OB1?

building-expert · Feb 12, 2014 9:50 pm

SaveH2O

ausdesign

If I was building a home based upon seeing a display home I would have a stipulation in the contract that the finish is to be to the quality of the display home.

Great idea but I wonder as to how many builders would agree to the clause.

No Need, you are already protected by law, Domesctic contracts Building Act 1995 section 6

So you get the display standard or the minimum standard(Australian Standards) whichever is higher

robbie55 · Feb 13, 2014 4:39 am

building-expert

SaveH2O

ausdesign

If I was building a home based upon seeing a display home I would have a stipulation in the contract that the finish is to be to the quality of the display home.

Great idea but I wonder as to how many builders would agree to the clause.

No Need, you are already protected by law, Domesctic contracts Building Act 1995 section 6

So you get the display standard or the minimum standard(Australian Standards) whichever is higher

Is the domestic contracts building act, state or fed legislation?

building-expert · Feb 13, 2014 6:18 am

It's a state law in Victoria but there would be something similar in other states or in common law
For example: If a builder has a display then he says" come and see this is what I do, this is what you will get" and incites you to enter building contract.
The display becomes agreed standard
Builder then cannot then give you something less and the law in Victoria is very specific about that.

This is why I brought about this thread, for people to understand that if there is no display standard, what are you getting?
A promise in the cloud? Then it reverts to the minimum standards that are covered by BCA, Australian Standards and the implied warranties.

Just to give you an example, when I was QS on a major hospital project we had a panel of brickwork specially constructed as reference of quality of brickwork for the rest of the job.

Standards are important and it is important to define them, that's why specification is very important and not just a bundle of useless paper.

Liliana · Feb 13, 2014 6:36 am

Would the above reasoning also apply to a project gallery on a builder's website? Our builder, for example, asked us to look at his website which was full of pictures of high quality work which gave us confidence in his competence. We later discovered that the images in his project gallery were all stock images. The quality of his actual work did not match the quality of the work on his project gallery. Could you hold him to that quality?

building-expert · Feb 13, 2014 8:17 am

Liliana

Would the above reasoning also apply to a project gallery on a builder's website? Our builder, for example, asked us to look at his website which was full of pictures of high quality work which gave us confidence in his competence. We later discovered that the images in his project gallery were all stock images. The quality of his actual work did not match the quality of the work on his project gallery. Could you hold him to that quality?

The Act deals with display home contract so it is somewhat different to your situation but:

If the builder has used stock photos(not of his own work) and represented it as his own then that is misrepresentation and a breach of contract, yes you should (subject to your legal advice) have a valid claim under common law and remedy is award of damages.

Liliana · Feb 13, 2014 12:32 pm

Thanks Branko,

That's interesting and something to think about.

veseli · Mar 25, 2014 9:56 pm

building-expert
There is so many things wrong with your post, i have read some nice answers from you, but this one is just wrong, im sorry i had to comment.

I'm a builder and i don't have display home, and don't need one, and I've been building homes since 2006.

Calling a display house a point of reference is very wrong. Everything you see on a display home is EXTRA, and even if you ask any project builder to build you the same house as their display house they will refuse to, there is just too many extras in their display homes, just try and you will see that im right, many of my clients did it.
Display house is built carefully to be used as display for marketing purposes, they use interior designers to select all the furniture and choose all the colours so it all looks attractive, tradies are carefully selected to get best workmanship, all materials used are upgraded and you don't get it as standard, house is much bigger then what you will get in your tender, it might have the same house name, but not the the same area.

End of the day, your house will not look nothing like a display house, not will you have the same finishes, supervisor or tradies building it. Its all marketing.

Areas are bigger then in your base price, they stretch the house so it feels spacious when you walk in.
Kitchen, wet areas, floor coverings, brick types, window sizes, woodwork, appliances, light fittings and everything else you see on display house is upgraded, and there is no reference unless you select all those products, and that is 1 in 100 and be prepared to be ripped off big time to upgrade all that.
House is oriented properly in display home, and 90% of other project homes don't have proper orientation.
And there is many other facts, display house is not reference and anyone thinking so is VERY WRONG.

End of the day you will get a house as described in your building Tender, and according to MINIMUM BCA standards, i have seen many Project homes and this is what you are getting, many of them don't even comply.

That phone call to ring previous client and ask him few questions about the builder is more important then 10 of their great marketing homes.

Bez uvrede Mr. Branko.

seano · Mar 25, 2014 10:04 pm

Veseli, he's talking about standards of finish and workmanship. Not extras.

You don't pay extra for better workmanship to match a display home. A display home should be the workmanship that can be reasonably expected.

So personally I think you're the one who is wrong and misleading.

If that's the arrogance and attitude you show your clients, I feel very sorry for them.

veseli · Mar 25, 2014 10:10 pm

No Arrogance here my friend.

I'm talking about standards and workmanship plus the extras, it all comes as one package which you wont get.
If its unclear, please read again.

SaveH2O · Mar 25, 2014 11:59 pm

I found veseli's post to be an interesting insight written by a builder and not at all arrogant. I am actually surprised that a builder would be so honest about how display homes are presented and the 'tricks' used but he missed the one about having children's beds in the smaller bedrooms.

veseli also attested to display homes being built by the best tradesmen as per...

veseli

tradies are carefully selected to get best workmanship,

Branko wasn't referring to building stretched versions with the proper orientation and the included extras, he was referring to the display's standard of workmanship being used as the reference if the display home's workmanship was used by the builder as an inducement to get the buyer to sign up. Branko also referenced Domestic contracts Building Act 1995 section 6.

building-expert

If a builder has a display then he says" come and see this is what I do, this is what you will get" and incites you to enter building contract.
The display becomes agreed standard
Builder then cannot then give you something less and the law in Victoria is very specific about that.

It's an interesting point but as to the practicality; check my sceptical first post.

building-expert · Mar 26, 2014 6:02 am

veseli

No Arrogance here my friend.

I'm talking about standards and workmanship plus the extras, it all comes as one package which you wont get.
If its unclear, please read again.

I am well aware that display homes are dollied up for marketing, that they have extras or your house may be different size and there may be exclusions in your contract, but that's not the point. It comes down to two promises. Promise to build for a promise to pay. Contract is specification of the two promises.

If you have entered building contract seeing builder's a display home than that display becomes representation of what you will get and part of the promise in regard to workmanship. That's not my opinion, that's the law.

So as a builder if you are using the best tradesmen and best materials in your display knowing that you have no intention of delivering the same on the other houses you build you are engaging in misrepresentation and it's much more serious than just marketing tricks. Anyone deliberately engaging in misrepresentation and breach of law is not fit and proper person to hold builder's registration and you may loose it.

bez uvrede (no offence) veseli, you need to get some re education because as a registered builder you are supposed to know all this.

veseli · Mar 27, 2014 8:14 pm

Hi Again,

The law you are referring to is hardly enforceable, and impossible to enforce in any court, as judge, expert witness or anyone else in building dispute case will not go to Builder's display house and compare workmanship, it wont be on.

I have been expert witness in NSW Fair Trading against other builders and i have seen the law very well, i also work for Insurance companies and do all the repairs after builders go bust.
Maybe other states have different process but in NSW that's just not on, expert witness MUST rely on Australian Standards, BCA clauses, Fair Trading guide of tolerances, Manufacturer instructions and so on, and not on some display house. No two tradies are the same, and they never will be.

You can give same carpenter 2 doors to install next to each other, and doors will not be hung the same way, gaps wont be the same, lock will not fit and function the same way, height wont be the same, average people wont notice this but i will.

No builder would write or state in his contract that your house will look exactly like the one on display, there is just so many loopholes on how he can get out of it.

Once you come to CTTT or local Court same rules apply for builders with display homes and builders without them.

I didn't like your post because many new families will read this and understand it wrong way, you basically said if your builder doesn't have a display house, don't build with him, well i have seen it all and i tell them don't EVER fall for their display home, and don't EVER think that you will get anything similar to that display home, regardless if its workmanship or inclusions, thats just my opinion.

Im glad you come to these forums and help people, i wish i had more time to do the same.

Please don't take it the wrong way Branko.