Browse Forums Building A New House 1 May 26, 2010 10:50 am We are building with JG King and have had a lot of problems so far. I've decided to start a thread because things do not seem to be getting much better and we could use some advice and support. Here are some photos of our house: This one was taken on February 14th: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ This one was taken on May 15th: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Not much happened for four months because of problems with the slab. More later... Re: Our build with JG King 2May 26, 2010 11:47 am Where abouts is Vic are you? And what were the problems? Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Our build with JG King 3May 26, 2010 12:44 pm wow hiker 4 months and i am complaining about a week with no progress.. What is the holdup with the slab? surley after all this time they should have recified it by now, I hope you have a time line in your contract.. Good luck with it all keep us informed Soots viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31037 harvard 27 DFH signed contract 16th March 2010 slab down 1st June 2010 frame started 8th June 2010 trusses and frame finished 24th June 2010 tiles almost done 14th July 2010 Bricks started 14th July 2010 Plaster started 28th July 2010 Paint 25th August 2010 Re: Our build with JG King 4May 26, 2010 1:32 pm Wow, I hope things improve for you soon, can you elaborate on what exactly was wrong with the slab? I am also building with JG King, and hoping that things run a bit smoother than yours appears to be. Some people don't have time to do the job right the first time, but seem to have plenty of time to fix their mistakes. Build Thread Re: Our build with JG King 5May 26, 2010 2:01 pm We kindly ask that you adhere to Homeone's Terms of Use and avoid posting any objectionable information at all times. All individuals are responsible for their own posts to which you agreed upon registration. You need to be very clear of the defamation laws that apply to you as an individual Re: Our build with JG King 6May 26, 2010 3:16 pm I have no intention of posting any objectionable information. Just a factual account of what we are going through. I agree that it's wrong to rant and rave irrationally about builders in public forums but I also think we have to be very careful that we don't allow fears or threats to gag our right to discuss our building experiences in a rational way. I am seeking advice and support from others with similar experiences. The only way I can get that is if I describe clearly the situation I'm in. We are building in the Geelong region. The problem with our slab is that it isn't the right size for the frame and the sides weren't square. It sounds a lot simpler than it turned out to be. Here are some photos: In some places, the frame overhangs the slab: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ In other places, the slab extended in front of the frame: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I've only shown a few examples. According to measurements given in the report prepared by the builder's engineer, there was not a single wall of the house that was within spec. I'll add more in my next post. The whole thing has been a bit of a snowball. As the builder went about repairing the slab, we either discovered new problems we hadn't originally known about or the repairs caused new problems or concerns for us. Re: Our build with JG King 7May 26, 2010 3:26 pm That's not good what they've done to your frame. It doesn't seem fair that builders can try to silence people into not telling their stories. If builders don't want negative things said about them, perhaps they could build things properly and keep their customers happy. contract signed: Nov 09 Released to Construction: 23 Jul 10 Slab poured: 9 Aug 10 Frame completed: 30 Aug 10 Windows & Gutters: 7 Sep 10 Bricks: 15 - 23 Sep 10 Roof: 24 Sep 10 Gyprock: 20 Oct 10 Lockup: 25 Oct 10 Kitchen: 27 Oct 10 Tiling: 6 - 9 Nov 10 Painting: 17 Nov 10 Carpet: 30 Nov 10 PCI: 15 Dec 10 Handover: 17 Dec 10 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35943 Re: Our build with JG King 8May 26, 2010 3:41 pm Here are the initial dimension problems with the slab, wall by wall, as measured by the builder's engineer: Wall 1: Slab extends beyond frame 20mm at one end and 115 mm at the other end (20-115 mm) Wall 2: Slab extends beyond frame 15 mm at one end Wall 3: Slab extends beyond frame 100-110 mm Wall 4: Slab extends beyond frame 18-85 mm Wall 5: Frame overhangs slab by 90 mm Wall 6: Slab extends beyond frame by 85-115 mm Wall 7: Slab extends beyond frame by 115-120 mm Wall 8: Slab extends beyond frame by 110-155 mm Wall 9: Frame overhangs slab by 90 mm Wall 10: Slab extends beyond frame 150-175 mm Wall 11: Frame overhangs slab 0-65 mm Wall 12: Slab extends beyond frame by 0-35 mm Wall 13: Slab extends beyond frame 15-42 mm Wall 14: Slab extends beyond frame by 25 mm Wall 15: Frame overhangs slab by 20mm at one end and the slab extends beyond the frame by 35 mm at the other end Wall 16: Slab extends beyond the frame by 40-55 mm Wall 17: Slab extends beyond the frame by 0-70 mm Wall 18: Slab extends beyond the frame 5-45 mm Wall 19: Slab extends beyond the frame 90-150 mm Wall 20: Slab extends beyond the frame 0-85 mm The slab was poured the week before Christmas. We were later told by the builder that the concreter was away and not supervising his crew. We were also away at the time. The weather was cold and windy. The site supervisor has admitted that he did not supervise it properly. As I said in my last post, I'll just give a factual account of what's happened as we've tried to work with JG King to repair this. I've learned many lessons and there are many things I would do differently if I had known then what I know now. One lesson - Before the concrete of your slab is poured, get an independent inspector to check everything, including the dimensions. Re: Our build with JG King 9May 26, 2010 4:02 pm Hiker Is this your independent Engineer’s report? If not get it done with some one. I think builder should not erect framing before rectify this issue. Perimeter walls are load bearing. Need to be sit on the beams. Next issue, water tightness. Brick skin wall to be sit on the recessed portion of the perimeter beam and add a flashing to stop water seepage (I believe you have that detail in your contract drawing. If not let me know. I will add it). Seems like that will not happen due to the slab extended beyond frame. Good luck with the rest of the work. Re: Our build with JG King 10May 26, 2010 4:29 pm Thanks for the reply mervyn. The saga has a long way to go for us to catch up to the present. As far as independent engineer's reports - we have spent thousands on those and we still haven't got everything resolved. We have worked through all of the issues that you mentioned and more. It's just going to take me a while to describe it all. The slab was poured in December and the frame was erected in January. On January 23rd, we went to the site and first saw the problems with the slab. The biggest problem was the extension of the slab in front of the frame. It is a waffle slab and the stems of the edge beams (the vertical part connecting the slab top with the brick rebate at the bottom) are supposed to be 150 mm wide. The building code states that the stem width cannot be less than 110 mm wide. So, it's not possible to just cut off the excess concrete because then the stem would be too narrow. In some places, where the excess is greater than 150 mm in front of the frame, cutting off the excess would remove the whole edge beam! JG King said that their engineer would be tasked with coming up with a solution. We were shown the solution by the site supervisor on 10th February. We were surprised, to say the least. The engineer proposed solving the problem by building the house with no brick rebates. In other words, the bottom course of bricks would be level with the bottom of the framing. So, there would be no need to remove any of the excess slab - just build the bricks right next to the frame. The problem with this is, as mervyn pointed out - water tightness. The building code requires a brick rebate so that water won't go through the masonry, pool at the bottom of the wall and then enter the house. The builder and the builder's engineer told us that this wouldn't be a problem because a sealant would be applied to the base of the frame. But everyone else, including the building surveyor, told us it was not a good idea. We refused this solution and, thankfully, JG King accepted that. The strange thing was that two of the people from JG King who had tried to get us to accept this solution later told us that they agreed it was not a good idea! The problem was that the builder's engineer, in an email that we were shown, had stated: "there is no opportunity to sawcut through the slab to create a 2 course rebate without significantly compromising the structural integrity of the floor slab. Major structural repair work is required if you do." So, we were told that JG King would deconstruct the frame, demolish the slab and start again. But, the next day, we were told that they had a new plan... Re: Our build with JG King 11May 26, 2010 4:47 pm This may seem horribly simplistic - i am fully aware i will be shot down if it is Can they remeasure the slab - redraw house and order a new frame? Some dimensions would be less some more, or at least draw it up and see if are happy with it or if it is even possible. This of course does not work if the issues extend beyond dimensions of the slab then it will be a pull down start again. I am very sorry for your saga Re: Our build with JG King 12May 26, 2010 5:05 pm Bluesteel - if only it was that simple. A new frame would help, but not completely solve the problem as none of the sides of the slab were straight.
The new plan involved a mixture of approaches. In places where the slab extended a lot in front of the frame, the plan was to cut away the edge beams and rebuild the entire edge of the slab. We were concerned about this approach because the builder's engineer had originally said this was not a good idea (see my last post). Another part of the plan involved leaving the slab extension and cutting the bricks and edge of slab. Here is my rough sketch of it: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ We were concerned about this because it left us with a very limited damp-proof course, essentially no rebate and weepholes that were mostly blocked because they backed onto the slab rather than the cavity. But it's tricky situation. Do we go to VCAT to get the thing built according to the original plans? Or accept a compromise. We have been asking ourselves that question since February - we are still asking it. When this solution was proposed, we said we would consider it, but we wanted JG King to have the plans drawn up by their engineer and to pay for an independent engineer who we would choose to assess it. They agreed. So we waited for the plans. Re: Our build with JG King 13May 26, 2010 5:32 pm I don't think it is a good adea to cut bricks. Dead load will transfer to bottom course of bricks and need to have a full brick. Remember the brick wall is just a skin and self support. you will get some cracks on later stage. If possible, move the walls and increase the room size. add dummy wall inside to get it straight. Re: Our build with JG King 14May 26, 2010 6:02 pm Things start to snowball... I forgot one detail. Before we had a chance to either agree to or refuse the first proposed solution, we met onsite with the local JG King manager and JG King's engineer to discuss the proposal. We asked for them to stop all work on the slab until we had a chance to evaluate their plan. This was on a Thursday afternoon (11th February). The manager agreed to halt work. We went back to the site on the Saturday (13th February) and found that work had not been halted. The concreter had gone to the site and cut away a large part of the western edge beam that had extended in front of the frame along this wall (115 mm at one end to 20 mm at the other end): Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ This exposed the steel reinforcement: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ We immediately complained to JG King. They had agreed verbally to stop work but work had progressed and , worse, the work that had been done had involved cutting away a significant section of the edge beam. At the north end of this wall, 115 mm of concrete was cut away. Since the original stem of the edge beam was supposed to be 150 mm wide, this suggested that the stem was now only 35 mm wide! JG King said that they had not instructed the concreter to do this. Nobody has ever explained to us why he did. Meanwhile, over the next few months, the reinforcement that had been unnecessarily exposed began rusting Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ So now, we had the problem of an edge beam that had been severely narrowed and some rusting reinforcement on top of all the original problems. The snowball had started to roll... Mervyn - we don't like the cut brick approach at all - it becomes an issue as the saga continues. JG King have not been willing to accept a "No" from us on this. Re: Our build with JG King 15May 26, 2010 7:07 pm This needs to be totally reslabbed IMO! Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Our build with JG King 16May 26, 2010 7:31 pm To find out how wide the western edge beam was after the concreter had removed a large piece of it, a hole was drilled through it. We discovered that it was now 95 mm wide. Since 115 mm had been cut off it, that suggested that it had originally been 210 mm wide instead of the 150 mm specified in the plans. Our engineer suggested that measurements be taken around the perimeter of the slab to determine whether the edge beam was wider in other places. If so, it would make the repair easier. So lots of holes were drilled in the top of the slab: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ As you can see, by now the frame was not doing very well. It was full of water and dirt and, in some places, supported a nice growth of algae: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The news from the hole drilling was not good. Instead of telling us that the edge beam stems were wider than 150 mm, we found that a number of them were only about 100 mm. This is below the minimum specified in the building code. In total, this affected six of the walls of the house. Re: Our build with JG King 17May 26, 2010 7:34 pm Deemaree - you may be right. But as you will see as I continue the saga, the only way that will happen is if we go to VCAT. That will take months, cost a fair bit and won't be guaranteed to have the outcome we seek. But we may yet do it. Keep reading and at the end, let me know what you think we should do. Re: Our build with JG King 18May 26, 2010 7:38 pm I really feel for you what a horrible experience to have to go through with your build Dear J.K. Rowling, Your books are entirely unrealistic. I mean, a ginger kid with two friends? Sincerely, Anonymous Re: Our build with JG King 19May 26, 2010 7:41 pm Isn't there some sort of housing ombudsman you can talk to prior to VCAT? This is a disgrace Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Our build with JG King 20May 26, 2010 7:47 pm You wonder how these things happen though. Is it the lack of professionalism or inferior workmanship? It's devastating and you invest not only financially in your build, but emotionally. No wonder so many are left feeling empty and vow never to build again. My heart is honestly breaking for you to have to deal with this Dear J.K. Rowling, Your books are entirely unrealistic. I mean, a ginger kid with two friends? Sincerely, Anonymous I would never build with Fowler homes. I built with them in 2021 and till date maintenance issues are pending. All their existing trades and businesses don't work with… 14 109679 1 10169 Thank you so much everyone. This all makes a lot of sense. I guess when you talk to a builder who butters up everything to look very polished, you get to start believing… 7 19849 |