Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation Re: Storage water heater vs instant 2Jul 19, 2015 4:30 pm Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Storage water heater vs instant 4Jul 20, 2015 9:06 pm Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Storage water heater vs instant 6Jul 23, 2015 7:35 pm Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Storage water heater vs instant 8Jul 24, 2015 8:01 am Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Storage water heater vs instant 9Jul 24, 2015 10:27 am Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Storage water heater vs instant 12Feb 15, 2022 6:14 pm I wonder whether I could revive this thread, given various technologies may have advanced in four years, and costs may have changed. We're building to the SW of Sydney. A big single-storey house, so will need at least two HWS, just to reduce wait times. I'm really hoping to avoid connecting natural gas to the house at all. Kitchen is to be electric (induction cooktop, electric oven etc). Two fireplaces I'm hoping will be electric since they're mainly for looks (still looking into that). That leaves hot water as the remaining reason for a gas line. Keeping in mind we plan to add a decent (12kW+) solar PV system, ideally with battery (eventually, if not right away), so the price of electricity hopefully won't be a major concern. Given all that, it seems as though the options are solar with/without tank, or electric with storage, or electric instantaneous, or possibly heat pump. I'm leaning toward either solar with electricity boost (from PV/battery), or electric instantaneous, but what are the considerations? From the earlier discussion here I gather we can go with a couple of larger units requiring 3-phase power, or smaller single-phase units near each area of usage. Anyway, we've just started to explore the options and would appreciate any input. P.S. If anyone saw my thread about the fireplaces, yes, I'd completely forgotten about the HWS when I posted. Too many things to think about all at once lol. P.P.S. Given the lack of response, perhaps I should have started a new thread - not really familiar with how the forum works. Re: Storage water heater vs instant 13Aug 03, 2022 8:11 pm ThatGuy42 I wonder whether I could revive this thread, given various technologies may have advanced in four years, and costs may have changed. We're building to the SW of Sydney. A big single-storey house, so will need at least two HWS, just to reduce wait times. I'm really hoping to avoid connecting natural gas to the house at all. Kitchen is to be electric (induction cooktop, electric oven etc). Two fireplaces I'm hoping will be electric since they're mainly for looks (still looking into that). That leaves hot water as the remaining reason for a gas line. Keeping in mind we plan to add a decent (12kW+) solar PV system, ideally with battery (eventually, if not right away), so the price of electricity hopefully won't be a major concern. Given all that, it seems as though the options are solar with/without tank, or electric with storage, or electric instantaneous, or possibly heat pump. I'm leaning toward either solar with electricity boost (from PV/battery), or electric instantaneous, but what are the considerations? From the earlier discussion here I gather we can go with a couple of larger units requiring 3-phase power, or smaller single-phase units near each area of usage. Anyway, we've just started to explore the options and would appreciate any input. P.S. If anyone saw my thread about the fireplaces, yes, I'd completely forgotten about the HWS when I posted. Too many things to think about all at once lol. P.P.S. Given the lack of response, perhaps I should have started a new thread - not really familiar with how the forum works. The idea with solar PV panels these days is self-consumption. You get paid very little FIT to export power to the grid, while still being charged a lot to import power. So it's best to use your own solar generated power, instead of exporting it & importing power at another time. One of the largest power users in a home..... hot water. So you want to be using your solar generated power to heat your water. You can't do that with gas, whether gas instantaneous, or gas storage. You can't really do that with electric instantaneous, it draws very high amounts of power, usually when the sun isn't shining. You can do it with electric storage hot water. This of the storage tank as a thermal battery. A battery that stores your solar generated power, & does it much, much cheaper than a Tesla Powerwall home battery. The choice for electric storage hot water. Electric resistive, cheap, but energy hungry. Or a heat pump, extremely efficient, using only a quarter the power of the electric resistive heater. The choice for me would be a heat pump, & a decent quality one. In QLD, solar thermal hot water is also a good option. But in VIC they need to much winter boosting. In Sydney, probably the heat pump is best. Same goes with space heating. Your electric heaters will be resistive heaters, expensive to run. A reverse cycle AC (a form of heat pump) is far, far more energy efficient, using about a quarter the power. Re: Storage water heater vs instant 15Nov 14, 2022 11:03 pm Thanks for the response. I haven't been on for quite a while, but believe it or not the house hasn't even got past Council yet. Lots of delays. We're going with electric-boosted solar HWS (x2), and a PV power system - 20kW, I think. As you say, the idea is to power the place with as little reliance on the grid as we can manage. In that regard, we'll be looking at electricity storage of some sort - presumably a battery of some stripe. I hear good things about BYD? We expect to eventually be charging at least one electric vehicle, maybe two. We're putting in three-phase for a fast charger (and the AC). We've been told that if we want to run two fast chargers, it'll cost about $20,000 to upgrade things to take the load. I doubt it would be worth it, but does anyone have an opinion? Both heating and cooling will be by reverse cycle AC - that was always a given. The fireplaces are just for ambience. The AC will definitely be there. But we've also been thinking about far-infrared heating panels. I gather they're more energy-efficient (and just plain effective) than your old-style red-glowing radiators, and the "sun on your face" aspect sounds inviting (see also the fireplace thread). But the cheap one I bought from... um, Amazon or Kogan I think, was pretty disappointing. It does warm a bedroom fairly well. But as far as I can tell, just by letting warm air rise up out of it. You can only feel the warmth radiating from it if you're within about 2m. That's probably for a new thread though. (Actually, wouldn't be surprised if I already started it months ago). Re: Storage water heater vs instant 16Nov 15, 2022 8:17 am ThatGuy42 Thanks for the response. I haven't been on for quite a while, but believe it or not the house hasn't even got past Council yet. Lots of delays. We're going with electric-boosted solar HWS (x2), and a PV power system - 20kW, I think. As you say, the idea is to power the place with as little reliance on the grid as we can manage. In that regard, we'll be looking at electricity storage of some sort - presumably a battery of some stripe. I hear good things about BYD? We expect to eventually be charging at least one electric vehicle, maybe two. We're putting in three-phase for a fast charger (and the AC). We've been told that if we want to run two fast chargers, it'll cost about $20,000 to upgrade things to take the load. I doubt it would be worth it, but does anyone have an opinion? Both heating and cooling will be by reverse cycle AC - that was always a given. The fireplaces are just for ambience. The AC will definitely be there. But we've also been thinking about far-infrared heating panels. I gather they're more energy-efficient (and just plain effective) than your old-style red-glowing radiators, and the "sun on your face" aspect sounds inviting (see also the fireplace thread). But the cheap one I bought from... um, Amazon or Kogan I think, was pretty disappointing. It does warm a bedroom fairly well. But as far as I can tell, just by letting warm air rise up out of it. You can only feel the warmth radiating from it if you're within about 2m. That's probably for a new thread though. (Actually, wouldn't be surprised if I already started it months ago). Re 2 fast chargers - how often will you be in the position that you have 2 vehicles that both need to be charged in the next hour, as opposed to overnight (or in 2 hours if you do the cars back-to-back)? Most EV users don't require a fast charger at home at all, let alone 2. I wouldn't spend $20k on that - who knows what the technology will look like by the time you're in the situation where you think you'll need it. Re: Storage water heater vs instant 17Nov 15, 2022 7:36 pm That's actually kind of the point. This isn't about what we're likely to be doing anytime soon, but about the future. One of the main areas of battery research these days is improving charging times. People are talking about batteries that can charge in a few seconds (not anything that's likely to be practical anytime soon, but gives an indication of where we might be heading). But... Think about it. Let's say you've got a car that stores a similar amount to current EVs, or more. It can charge in a minute or two. That energy has to come from somewhere, at a huge rate. I'm not saying I'm going to run out and spend $20k on the possibility now, but it is another thing to consider. In more general terms, do you think we're likely to be using less electricity in future, or more? My guess is more, possibly in ways we haven't even thought of yet. I'd like to be ready, if I can manage it. I need to do some more research, of course. For instance if would cost a similar amount to upgrade things later, then I'd be insane to even consider it now. But what if, like a lot of changes to a house, it costs three times as much once everything's installed? That might change the equation. Re: Storage water heater vs instant 18Nov 16, 2022 9:12 am it's not something that makes financial sense to future proof, unless it will be impossible to run new circuits in your garage for whatever reason. it will probably be cheaper to add the fast chargers when you actually need them, provided you've got the 3 phase connection done now, and it's sufficient to handle reasonable future loads. tbh i doubt that we'll see residential fast chargers that can charge a car in a matter of seconds and require insane amount of energy. precisely for that reason you mentioned, very few households will have the wiring to support it. also it flies in a face of maximising solar energy benefits. it's more likely that we will have chargers matched to the solar systems so the car doubles as a home battery. I think the fast chargers that can charge a car in seconds (or even minutes) will be destined for the electrical equivalent of petrol stations. after all, if you can drive up to a charging station and spend exactly the same time there you would currently spend at petrol station, why would you spend lots of money trying to install the same infrastructure in your own house? you'd have something that utilises the 'free' electricity from your solar instead. 0 1480 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair Hi everyone Question about Brevis gas heating undergound - was recently installed by previous owners (<1 year old) but live in a relatively large house - 4 bdr - and only… 0 5813 My Electrical roughing is going on. What type of Outdoor heater recommended in Alfresco sized 3000mm x 3000mm below. I asked electrician to give 15amp power point in… 0 698 |