Browse Forums Building A New House Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 3Oct 28, 2021 8:10 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 5Oct 28, 2021 8:22 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 6Oct 28, 2021 8:29 am Mate, you're a clown. Your above advice above is contradictory. The fact that you cant see that actually speaks to your credibility. You also get basic maths wrong. Proven by the way, with maths. I can relink you the two threads if you can't remember. You have comprehension problems, i can link you that thread too if you like. And you seem to have gotten kicked out of vector works and your posts deleted because one can only assume you couldn't actually have any meaningful engineering discussions with engineers. You haven't actually established anything about my qualifications or credibility because I've not claimed to be of any particular profession on this forum. SO yeah, kind of a weird flex buddy. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 7Oct 28, 2021 8:31 am Chess Hi guys, I am at the planning stage of house siting. The builder advised 0.8m cutting at the rear which will cause retaining wall later. We want to increase by filling and dropped edge beam instead to keep the existing retaining wall. However we can't make decision on how much to fill since we don't know: How much is the minimum distance the finished ground lever should be higher than the outside natural ground level. Below amendments are based on increasing the RL (Is RL same with FFL?) from builder's proposal by 0.4m. The only area is slightly lower than natural ground is alfresco. Can anyone provide advice how much we need to increase the house based on their plan? 0.4m or 0.5m? To make sure: 1. The finished level is still higher enough to keep the slab safe from the rain. 2. Existing retaining wall can be kept so no more $$ on retaining wall. Thank you. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Chess In NSW cut and fill heights are dictated by the approval authorities. I believe under CDC its 1000mm cut and 600mm fill if you are setback from the boundary and max 600 cut on the boundary. And then councils have their own. For example some might be 500mm and I have seen one council that allows 700mm of fill. I hope this helps a little cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 8Oct 28, 2021 8:38 am Noname You haven't actually established anything about my qualifications or credibility because I've not claimed to be of any particular profession on this forum. SO yeah, kind of a weird flex buddy. Stop criticizing Someone who is licensed to certify Site works, engineering and retaining you would do best to start on site with a shovel digging trenches and then work your way up (humour) Talks cheap on site from trolls Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 9Oct 28, 2021 8:38 am Leona33 In my experience, I dictated much on how much to cut the land. What I did was to get the Natural ground level the lowest and highest point of the proposed area where your slab will sit. Average the result and I work from there. Cutting the land deeply brings lot of problem. Drainage of rAinwater. My block have 4 meters diagonal slope. In my case, we sited the slab in the area where we had a least amount of cut and fill. We did it. No retaining walls. A 300mm edge beam in the garage area. Retaining walls and site cost adds up to build price. I would rather spend the money in the house itself and enjoy than in retaining walls. Cut and fill is the builders easy way to build but presents lots of problem after. Try to have mini split on your floor plan. One or two steps high. Hi Leona33, Thanks. Yes I totally agree with you. We don't want to cut too much then end up with too much retaining wall cost and and drainage problem. Our problem is the garage is the lowest, the alfresco area is the highest. We try to cut minimum to the rear and lift the front up. However the garage can't be lifted too much due to the drive way profile. In addition builder told us the garage step down can only be 510mm, 680 or 860. If the stepdown more than 510mm, we might lose the internal access to the house. The builder hasn't reply if can push the stepdown into laundry. It's so difficult to balance everything. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 10Oct 28, 2021 8:44 am Chess It's so difficult to balance everything. Once you have paid a deposit there is no equal understanding. Site work costs just increase and you bargaining power decreases. You'll need to seriously consider getting professional advice Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 11Oct 28, 2021 8:44 am StructuralBIMGuy Noname You haven't actually established anything about my qualifications or credibility because I've not claimed to be of any particular profession on this forum. SO yeah, kind of a weird flex buddy. Stop criticizing Someone who is licensed to certify Site works, engineering and retaining you would do best to start on site with a shovel digging trenches and then work your way up (humour) Talks cheap on site from trolls i don't know if you're certified. You say you are. But there's a whole lotta red flags buddy. And if you note, my criticisms of you are always based on something you've said that is either contradictory or plain wrong in your post. SO you if don't want criticism, don't post comments that either make no sense or contradict themselves the next line over. Did you want those links mate? or are you good? Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 12Oct 28, 2021 9:02 am StructuralBIMGuy Hey Chess Welcome to the forum Who did the design? and was optimising the cut/fill data discussed? Most clients don't understand site/engineering drawings that's why its always better to have it modelled in 3D Engineering Bim beforehand Otherwise, as you have mentioned the cost goes up and you are left in a worse position after handover having to do things yourself. OT, there's no 3 quotes after you have signed and given a deposit .... it's pay up Some builders are loosing a huge amount of money on projects started and they need to claw back profits on future projects... even more reason to use Bim data here Siteworks costs Cheers Chris Hi Chris, Builder did the design and we are trying to amend it before we sign anything. They don't provide enough advice. Also the sales and tender presenter are the middle man so it's hard to get useful information. Is the Proposed RL will be the finished floor level FFL? I guess the benching is the natural soil level after cut/fill. Then why there is 385 difference. I know the slab would be 85mm. What's the other 300mm? Do you know how much is the FFL has to be higher than natural ground? For example the alfresco area is 25.35, is FFL 25.335 will create rainwater problem in future? Thanks! Chess Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 13Oct 28, 2021 9:11 am Noname StructuralBIMGuy Most clients don't understand site/engineering drawings that's why its always better to have it modelled in 3D Engineering Bim wont understand the site/engineering drawings but will somehow develop the technical knowledge to understand 3d engineering BIM. GOLD. Hi Noname, I am trying to understand the technical terms here and there but sometimes it's hard to get useful information. Proposed RL will be the finished floor level FFL, is it correct? I guess the benching is the natural soil level after cut/fill. Then why there is 385 difference between RL and benching? I know the slab would be 85mm. What's the other 300mm? If the RL is same with FFL. Do you know how much is the RL/FFL has to be higher than natural ground? For example the alfresco area's natural ground level is 25.35, is FFL 25.335 will create rainwater problem in future? I guess we can cut the outside building area a bit at alfresco corner to make it safer to slab. Thanks! Chess Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 14Oct 28, 2021 9:42 am Chess Noname StructuralBIMGuy Most clients don't understand site/engineering drawings that's why its always better to have it modelled in 3D Engineering Bim wont understand the site/engineering drawings but will somehow develop the technical knowledge to understand 3d engineering BIM. GOLD. Hi Noname, I am trying to understand the technical terms here and there but sometimes it's hard to get useful information. Proposed RL will be the finished floor level FFL, is it correct? I guess the benching is the natural soil level after cut/fill. Then why there is 385 difference between RL and benching? I know the slab would be 85mm. What's the other 300mm? If the RL is same with FFL. Do you know how much is the RL/FFL has to be higher than natural ground? For example the alfresco area's natural ground level is 25.35, is FFL 25.335 will create rainwater problem in future? I guess we can cut the outside building area a bit at alfresco corner to make it safer to slab. Thanks! Chess Hi Chess, I can't give you any technical advice on this. I was merely pulling Bimboy up on conflicting advice he's given. He does that a lot. Often he'll also make unrealistic and alarming statements without ever actually answering the question, like he has in this thread. If Ashington homes hasn't provided you the info you need, I'd suggest reaching out to the builder to have them explain the levels on the plan to you in more detail. Don't accept any handwaving or dismissal from them, you're paying for this so your entitled to have answers that are clear and understandable. You might feel like you're rubbing them up the wrong way, but they work for you, not the other way around. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 15Oct 28, 2021 10:07 am Chess StructuralBIMGuy Hey Chess Welcome to the forum Who did the design? and was optimising the cut/fill data discussed? Most clients don't understand site/engineering drawings that's why its always better to have it modelled in 3D Engineering Bim beforehand Otherwise, as you have mentioned the cost goes up and you are left in a worse position after handover having to do things yourself. OT, there's no 3 quotes after you have signed and given a deposit .... it's pay up Some builders are loosing a huge amount of money on projects started and they need to claw back profits on future projects... even more reason to use Bim data here Siteworks costs Cheers Chris Hi Chris, Builder did the design and we are trying to amend it before we sign anything. They don't provide enough advice. Also the sales and tender presenter are the middle man so it's hard to get useful information. Is the Proposed RL will be the finished floor level FFL? I guess the benching is the natural soil level after cut/fill. Then why there is 385 difference. I know the slab would be 85mm. What's the other 300mm? Do you know how much is the FFL has to be higher than natural ground? For example the alfresco area is 25.35, is FFL 25.335 will create rainwater problem in future? Thanks! Chess Chess reading the above question, I can see why you are confused. I assume your builder is going with a waffle slab rather than a raft slab, in which case ( without seeing your engineering drawings) you total slab thickness will be around 310-385mm. This really depends on the thickness of the waffles. He may have specified 300mm thick waffles and then allowed for 85mm of concrete coverage which gets you to 385mm. I hope this answers your question. Basically when our team designs a home on a slope, they normally work from the highest allowable fill level and then determine the cut from there. Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 16Oct 28, 2021 11:02 am Ashington Homes Chess StructuralBIMGuy Hey Chess Welcome to the forum Who did the design? and was optimising the cut/fill data discussed? Most clients don't understand site/engineering drawings that's why its always better to have it modelled in 3D Engineering Bim beforehand Otherwise, as you have mentioned the cost goes up and you are left in a worse position after handover having to do things yourself. OT, there's no 3 quotes after you have signed and given a deposit .... it's pay up Some builders are loosing a huge amount of money on projects started and they need to claw back profits on future projects... even more reason to use Bim data here Siteworks costs Cheers Chris Hi Chris, Builder did the design and we are trying to amend it before we sign anything. They don't provide enough advice. Also the sales and tender presenter are the middle man so it's hard to get useful information. Is the Proposed RL will be the finished floor level FFL? I guess the benching is the natural soil level after cut/fill. Then why there is 385 difference. I know the slab would be 85mm. What's the other 300mm? Do you know how much is the FFL has to be higher than natural ground? For example the alfresco area is 25.35, is FFL 25.335 will create rainwater problem in future? Thanks! Chess Chess reading the above question, I can see why you are confused. I assume your builder is going with a waffle slab rather than a raft slab, in which case ( without seeing your engineering drawings) you total slab thickness will be around 310-385mm. This really depends on the thickness of the waffles. He may have specified 300mm thick waffles and then allowed for 85mm of concrete coverage which gets you to 385mm. I hope this answers your question. Basically when our team designs a home on a slope, they normally work from the highest allowable fill level and then determine the cut from there. Cheers Simeon Hi Simeon, Thanks a lot for your information. It's very useful. Yes we are having waffle slab with H1 85mm. Now I understand the RL is the final slab level including waffle and concrete top. We will go through DA and the council allows 900mm fill to under building footprint. So if we fill 900mm to the lowest laundry part, the RL will be 25.435 with 860mm step down to garage. If fill 800mm to the laundry part, the RL will be 25.335 + 680mm step down with steeper driveway. Assume for both above options we can push the Garage stepdown to laundry so keep the internal access, do you think higher slab (900mm) is better? 1. RL 25.435 is definitely higher than natural ground so we can keep the existing retaining wall and don't warry about the rainwater damage to slab. 2. 100mm extra dropped edge bean doesn't cause significant extra cost, maybe only few thousands. Looking forward to your opinion. Thanks in advance. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 17Oct 28, 2021 11:16 am Noname Hi Chess, I can't give you any technical advice on this. I was merely pulling Bimboy up on conflicting advice he's given. He does that a lot. Often he'll also make unrealistic and alarming statements without ever actually answering the question, like he has in this thread. If Ashington homes hasn't provided you the info you need, I'd suggest reaching out to the builder to have them explain the levels on the plan to you in more detail. Don't accept any handwaving or dismissal from them, you're paying for this so your entitled to have answers that are clear and understandable. You might feel like you're rubbing them up the wrong way, but they work for you, not the other way around. Many thanks Noname, You are right, we try to reach the builder but they only provide limited information every time. It's quite frustrating. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 18Oct 28, 2021 12:04 pm Chess Noname Hi Chess, I can't give you any technical advice on this. I was merely pulling Bimboy up on conflicting advice he's given. He does that a lot. Often he'll also make unrealistic and alarming statements without ever actually answering the question, like he has in this thread. If Ashington homes hasn't provided you the info you need, I'd suggest reaching out to the builder to have them explain the levels on the plan to you in more detail. Don't accept any handwaving or dismissal from them, you're paying for this so your entitled to have answers that are clear and understandable. You might feel like you're rubbing them up the wrong way, but they work for you, not the other way around. Many thanks Noname, You are right, we try to reach the builder but they only provide limited information every time. It's quite frustrating. Yeah its frustrating, but just be firm and polite about the info you need and why. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 19Oct 28, 2021 8:45 pm Chess Hi Chris, Builder did the design and we are trying to amend it before we sign anything. They don't provide enough advice. Also the sales and tender presenter are the middle man so it's hard to get useful information. Of course they don't provide enough information, even when they give you working drawings they still come back and alter their design, levels, Cut and fills, retaining..... how much are they slugging you for the Engineering Upgrade? Goodluck, with suing any salesman their advice is generally worthless. Chess Do you know how much is the FFL has to be higher than natural ground? For example the alfresco area is 25.35, is FFL 25.335 will create rainwater problem in future? Thanks! That's been explained, but I'll add, it would have helped if the builder had given you cross sections at various points/markers, which includes House FFL (RL), RL outside adjacent to the house, eg pathway, RL fence your side of the property, RL on the neighbours side ( retaining walls, etc,etc. Armed with that information ...."Then ask yourself am I worse off doing it after handover?..? Chess Do you know how much is the FFL has to be higher than natural ground? For example the alfresco area is 25.35, is FFL 25.335 will create rainwater problem in future? Thanks! Depends on your footing type & plan, I suspect They haven't provided you with that information either. Don't give them any more more money until they sort out your footings, storm water design and retaining The last thing you want is the builder to handball difficult items to clients. As they will credit back a small token amount and "level you in the Sh!t" after handover. One more time, the advantage of 3D bim is you can interrogate all the data visually , Scripting and automation allows you to analyse any scenario. generally Screw ups get fixed immediately at the beginning. hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: The minimum distance between FFL and natural ground? 20Oct 29, 2021 4:55 am Chess Hi guys, I am at the planning stage of house siting. The builder advised 0.8m cutting at the rear which will cause retaining wall later. We want to increase by filling and dropped edge beam instead to keep the existing retaining wall. However we can't make decision on how much to fill since we don't know: How much is the minimum distance the finished ground lever should be higher than the outside natural ground level. Below amendments are based on increasing the RL (Is RL same with FFL?) from builder's proposal by 0.4m. The only area is slightly lower than natural ground is alfresco. Can anyone provide advice how much we need to increase the house based on their plan? 0.4m or 0.5m? To make sure: 1. The finished level is still higher enough to keep the slab safe from the rain. 2. Existing retaining wall can be kept so no more $$ on retaining wall. Thank you. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Happy Friday Chess I am struggling to follow what you are trying to do. I know it has something to do with a retaining wall at the rear and you are worried about water. I am worried about your driveway being too steep at the crossover and council rejecting it as you wont be able to get your ferrari in without scraping it I am finding it hard to read your plans the way the system uploads. Just give me a call and I'll try and work it out for you. My number is 0431712792 Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. 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