Browse Forums Renovation + Home Improvement Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 21Nov 11, 2019 12:57 pm Well I think the onus is always on the homeowner. If he/she decides to do the work themselves and/or without the right certificates or approval in place then that is their responsibility. The arborist I mentioned did all the work himself and did a better job than a lot of tradies I've seen. He ran his quick sketch and a few photos of the current garage past an engineer who Ok'd it ( no certificate ) and built it accordingly. He borrowed my span tables and went up one size for everything. Tie-downs in place etc etc Like I alluded to in the second instance, he did get an engineer who drew up a quick drawing stating the steel beam that was needed. He borrowed a couple of my acrow props and I told him how to go about supporting the roof temporarily, installing the beam and re-strutting a purlin onto the beam. Why on earth would you want to get the council involved given their propensity for red tape? Stewie Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 22Nov 11, 2019 1:23 pm Because if something goes wrong if you are 1% wrong you will be accountable for 99% of the fault. I am no angel and have done the same in the past but have learned from it and redeemed proper attitude. Regardless of the cost and inconvenience there is something inherently wrong with laypersons in the community carrying out structural alterations without independent checks and balances. That is why we have the red tape. There will always be those who won’t obey the law and choose to live with the risk instead. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 23Nov 11, 2019 1:36 pm Jiminy. We've done a lot of attics and basements plus a stack of other minor alterations in the past without council approval nor engineers certificate. I've never been pulled up on any of it and let my experience and professional work stand on its own merit. Bugger having to get the council involved at a lot of cost and delay to the client for minor works. By all means, I'll get an engineer in to have a look at what we're planning if its needed but apart from that... Stewie Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 24Nov 25, 2019 12:40 am Stewie D Bugger having to get the council involved Stewie The thing is I went the route of ringing the council to find out what I needed. I have done additions to the external of a house and for additions in the front they wanted a site plan with proposed works, an elevation drawing and engineers drawings. For the additions at the back a site plan with proposed works and engineers drawings. However they did not want anything for internal work. My wife who deals with the council informed me that if any engineering or certification is required it is up to the company to get it sorted and forward it to the council and in recent years the councils engineers don't even look over the work anymore and it is trusted that what is filed is all up to scratch. Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 25Nov 25, 2019 6:06 am Record the steps you have taken and the dealings with the council so that you can show if required you have taken proper steps if liability arrises. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 26Nov 25, 2019 5:43 pm According to the council building approvals are required for the following.
Non of which concern me. Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 27Nov 26, 2019 10:59 pm Crikey, here in Vic the main one that gets you is Structural Alteration, and that's internal or external.Minor or major,no diff.plans and permit required most of the time costing more than the actual work.Stinks. I wish us registered builders/carpenters could just provide compliance certificates as do plumbers and electricans. We know when its necessary to consult an engineer,.for gods sake we build everyday. Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 28Nov 26, 2019 11:30 pm After seeing non compliant work self certified by the plumbers I am not in favour of self certification. Why are you complaining old chippy? You get paid well for what you do and the cost of compliance would be allowed in your price. What’s the big deal? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 29Nov 27, 2019 6:01 am No big deal for works over $10000 for as you know here in Vic you have to be a registered builder to perform and required to provide a major domestic building contract for - Sure the cost of the plans and permit and the time to revisit the site with a draughtsman and put forward your clients requirements to him is all built into the cost and the cost can be easily acknowledged by your client and no doubt he/she can be made aware of my legal requirements and in return his/her's satisfaction that the work is being done correctly and by law. In regards to my thoughts about a compliance certificate being able to be given by builders is when someone may require a small extension to their deck,a slightly larger window put in,maybe a opening through an internal wall that will require a beam- minor stuff like that any competent carpenter could assess and provide, maybe if required run it by an engineer, but without all the now necessary plans and permits because its difficult to justify the $1000's more just to be compliant when some cowboy carpenter will do it for half the price and have no comeback on him. This has now only come about because yes I am an oldchippy, been banging nails for more than 50 years,and in that time have done major renovations and extensions and built many houses,but am now sort of semi retired but still being called upon constantly by people who have been referred to me that require what I call minor work done,so with all this experience surely not only myself but others who have done an apprenticeship,have qualified as licenced builders,should be able to offer some sort of compliance certificate as plumbers can without having to go down the path of plans and permits to have the work checked by a inspector which puts the total cost of the work beyond peoples budget. Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 30Nov 27, 2019 3:01 pm I can see what you are getting at and it makes sense however real world is a great corruptor and before you know it there will be pretend tradies that hardly know which end of the saw to hold making structural alterations and self certifying them. I am sure that you are extensively experienced and a prime example why there should be self certification but when you open the door how do you keep cowboys out? In any case at your age you should be in a position to say no to low budget work, I do. Don't mix business with charity. I am sure that if it's worth doing its worth doing properly. If something goes wrong no one will ask you what the budget was, or how much you got paid and the ones you helped most will be the first to take the shirt off your back. I can attest from my bitter experience. Nothing badly went wrong but on one architect job that was completely stuffed up I came up with a solution from my experience and saved them tens of thousands of dollars, but then at the end of the job I was asked why I hadn't credited $ 100 door. That was the last time I went the extra mile for anyone. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 31Nov 27, 2019 5:16 pm And yet another reason why our building costs in Australia are some of the highest in the developed world per sq m and a building industry that is one of the most over-regulated despite its serious shortcomings plus lead times for approval up there with the worst of them. Our local council that I have butted heads with on many occasions both as a builder then a designer I must admit has got it right in an instance like this. As long as what the homeowner is going to do will not affect any of the neighbours by their proposed work then they basically don't want to know about it. As soon as you want to change the outside fabric of a house eg windows, doors, decks etc then they want a DA. A very reasonable attitude in my books. Stewie Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 32Nov 28, 2019 7:37 am LOL, OVER-REGULATED..surely you jest The problem is that the design/build data and proofs is not forth coming impo That's a problem for everyone building..... more important for the battlers & punters who generally get ripped OT, No body wants our building industry to be like Nigeria Where building collapse every week here Nigeria weekly building collapses Nor do they want to be told, Consider yourself lucky, it could have been worse if the the building fell or burnt down, accept your apartment is now worth less? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 33Nov 28, 2019 8:37 am Ha! "design/build data and proofs" . He wants to remove a couple of walls that affects nobody else, not build a heliport, install an olympic sized swimming pool, build up two storeys, commission a nuclear reactor. Goodness me. Stewie Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 34Nov 28, 2019 8:46 am Stewie D Ha! "design/build data and proofs" . He wants to remove a couple of walls that affects nobody else, not build a heliport, install an olympic sized swimming pool, build up two storeys, commission a nuclear reactor. Goodness me. Stewie It affects people that go on and inadvertently purchase that non-compliant structure/building. The days of qualified carpenters reading span tables are numbered...LOL, Finding carpenters (onsite) that can read is becoming more of a problem hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 35Nov 28, 2019 9:08 am "Finding carpenters (onsite) that can read is becoming more of a problem" Maybe over in the boondocks of WA, not so much of a problem here in the big smoke. Stewie Re: Roof support, want to remove some walls 36Nov 08, 2020 3:21 pm StructuralBIMGuy Stewie D Ha! "design/build data and proofs" . He wants to remove a couple of walls that affects nobody else, not build a heliport, install an olympic sized swimming pool, build up two storeys, commission a nuclear reactor. Goodness me. Stewie It affects people that go on and inadvertently purchase that non-compliant structure/building. The days of qualified carpenters reading span tables are numbered...LOL, Finding carpenters (onsite) that can read is becoming more of a problem hth I don't often agree with StructuralBIMGuy but this time he is absolutely right. He says: "It affects people that go on and inadvertently purchase that non-compliant structure/building" perfectly said. Engineering is for engineers, building for builders and building of timber frames for carpenters. StewieD talks about carpenters doing renovations however that makes them builders and as builders they should know their limits. I have done four structural engineering subjects at the school of engineering whilst doing my building degree but that does not make me an engineer, but it gives me clear understanding of everyone's place in the food chain. I know about structures more than most builders but even with that experience I am not an engineer. Unless you are an engineer you cannot certify structural work nor do you have professional indemnity insurance to cover you. Building surveyors will ask for structural design to be certified and then peer reviewed. Then they will rely on two engineering certificates to accept engineering into the building permit. However both Stewie D and old chippy make a very good point about the cost of certification. I am not in favour of self certification because of rubbish work I have seen plumbers self certify. They know better and how to do it properly but are lazy and cutting corners. It is a bit more difficult with builders and carpenters because their level of expertise is uncertain. We have had the corrupt officers of Building Commission push through registration of unqualified builders and I met one on site that could not speak English. With carpenters only God knows how many are properly qualified. My apprehension is from my experience. Once I inspected a home for pre purchase and at rear there was tiled gazebo but it was in the process of structural collapse but no one knew. It had no collar ties and roof weight pushed posts outward out of vertical only jamming against screen wall. It could have collapsed anytime and you can imagine if there was a kids birthday party under. Another time I inspected a two storey residence that did not have a single wall brace, I assume it was temporary props that held it up until it was braced by brick veneer. So my message to all that think they know, or even if they do, Don't take the risk I have always hired engineers for my projects, they are good to work with and I never had any structural issues. However I do think there should be legislated low cost expedited engineering solutions for the scenarios that Stewie D and Old Chippy describe. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog 4 3907 How do you remove one of these ceiling air con vents? And is it possible to disconnect the duct joined to the vent from inside the house, without going into the roof cavity? 0 6224 the step up is 30mm and wanting it to be flat . how much does the concrete have to be lowered .we plan on removing bath and lenghten shower and adding seat. the old bath… 0 12195 |