Mortar test cost?

We have been advised to get our mortar tested- the labs I’ve contacted won’t be able to quote until next week. Can anyone advise roughly what this test costs? TIA.

The rule of thumb for most lab test costs is $1-1.5K for starters then you'll need an engineer to check AS3700 Masonry Codes, Also check your engineering Details & Notes under "Masonry Structure AS3700" there should be relevant info there .ie, Mix, Strength, dos and don't,etc
Unfortunately, Test aren't conclusive and the smoking gun is long gone.
If you had the site and brickwork property inspected during construction by your engineer then you would be in a far better position now.. OT in a nut shell no one remembers what was done prior to things going wrong...buck passing comes to mind
Goodluck

Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, we do not have anything related to mortar on the engineer’s certificate in our building permit, although the use of a performance solution is briefly mentioned by the surveyor. We do have multiple inspection reports detailing multiple structural and cosmetic defects with the bricks (which were reported to our builder before handover and they said they fixed), and now both our mortar test and their mortar test failed to comply with the alternate mortar mix, leading the author of that performance solution report to tell me the failed scratch test indicates we do have serious problems. We’ve waited 18 months for them to fix our bricks, let’s hope they stop stuffing us around and just fix already.

AandM Thanks for the update
It would have been easier to have the mortar inspected and tested during the brick laying
Inspection stage , all could have been rectified then and there, saving you stress and wasted time
BTW, the wall will need to be checked against AS3700 Masonry Structures
In regards to performance Solutions and calculations, any codes with structure eg AS3600 Concrete Structures, AS1720 Timber Structures, etc, in the title requires an engineer for the Solutions
Re-pointing can only take you so far and may not be a complete fix. hth

The growing number of different certified Performance Solutions hidden in contracts are the absolute pits and one of my pet hates! It should be a requirement for any deviation from the Standards to be disclosed to the potential client before any money is exchanged and contracts signed.

I have assumed that the certified Performance Solution was already written in the contract.

I wish you well.

I agree. If they had fixed the defects properly when they were first notified we wouldn't still be talking about this 18 months later. However, I can't see how they can continue to claim there's nothing wrong when we have documented defects and two failed mortar tests. We have consulted an engineer with the inspection and mortar test results, and they have both recommended a course of action for getting our bricks to standards of the contract we signed. Same with the author of the performance solution document. Let's just hope the builder comes back with a better solution than to have us split the cost of rendering.

[quote="SaveH2O":3dtewwbd][quote="AandM":3dtewwbd]Unfortunately, we do not have anything related to mortar on the engineer’s certificate in our building permit, although the use of a performance solution is briefly mentioned by the surveyor.

and now both our mortar test and their mortar test failed to comply with the alternate mortar mix, leading the author of that performance solution report to tell me the failed scratch test indicates we do have serious problems. [/quote:3dtewwbd]
The growing number of different certified Performance Solutions hidden in contracts are the absolute pits and one of my pet hates! It should be a requirement for any deviation from the Standards to be disclosed to the potential client before any money is exchanged and contracts signed.

I have assumed that the certified Performance Solution was already written in the contract.

I wish you well.[/quote:3dtewwbd]
Thanks. The performance solutions are briefly referred to in our contract (just that the mortar ratio is 1:1:10), but no one explained them to us at the time, and we only received the performance solution document more than a month after we requested it. Not sure it matters since our mortar has been confirmed to not comply anyway.

Hi, one more question. We have requested a new certificate of compliance for the weak mortar and our builder has ignored that so far. Their engineer came out and his report acknowledges some of our issues, and made a few recs to either repoint or render the brickwork, but it does not address the weak mortar. If they can’t get find an engineer willing to certify, are they obligated to rebuild the bricks?

It is extremely unlikely that any industry expert would certify a new Performance Solution for what you describe, the builder has virtually no chance of supplying one.

Certified Performance Solutions are invariably written into a contract as a safeguard against being pinged for poor workmanship that does not meet the Standards and also as cost cutting exercises. In the example of the certified weaker mortar mix Performance Solution written into your contract, while the mortar mix does not need to comply with the Standards, it must still comply with its own certification. If it doesn't, it is defective and in breach of contract.

It is a shameful exercise when a builder does not disclose and explain Performance Solutions included in the contract but they are under no legal obligation to do so which is one of several strong reasons why a pre contract consultation with an industry expert is highly recommended.

That’s the thing- our mortar has failed two tests and does not technically comply with the performance solution.


[quote]
It is extremely unlikely that any industry expert would certify a new Performance Solution for what you describe, the builder has virtually no chance of supplying one.

Certified Performance Solutions are invariably written into a contract as a safeguard against being pinged for poor workmanship that does not meet the Standards and also as cost cutting exercises. In the example of the certified weaker mortar mix Performance Solution written into your contract, while the mortar mix does not need to comply with the Standards, it must still comply with its own certification. If it doesn't, it is defective and does not meet the agreed contract.

It is a shameful exercise when a builder does not disclose and explain a Performance Solution included in the contract but they are under no legal obligation to do so which is one of several strong reasons why a pre contract consultation with an industry expert is highly recommended.[/quote:1o1q16xq]

Do you know whether the bricklayer was qualified?

Not sure.

[quote="SaveH2O":sbmqszx6]Do you know whether the bricklayer was qualified?[/quote:sbmqszx6]

[img:sbmqszx6]https://forum.homeone.com.au/u/72924_1566541316.png[/img:sbmqszx6]

Parts of the wall will be checked against the codes, in same instances such as compression loading weak mortar is acceptable
eg old houses which have weak lime mortar are OK engineers don't pull down the old brickwork when doing renos.
It also depends on the roof loading onto the walls ie fan strutting? Your Engineer should look at every possible load combination to make your case
If you require more info leave a PM
Cheers
Chris

Thanks for your response!

[quote="StructuralBIMGuy":3j4jv22w][quote="AandM":3j4jv22w]Hi, one more question. We have requested a new certificate of compliance for the weak mortar and our builder has ignored that so far. Their engineer came out and his report acknowledges some of our issues, and made a few recs to either repoint or render the brickwork, but it does not address the weak mortar. If they can’t get find an engineer willing to certify, are they obligated to rebuild the bricks?
[/quote:3j4jv22w]
Parts of the wall will be checked against the codes, in same instances such as compression loading weak mortar is acceptable
eg old houses which have weak lime mortar are OK engineers don't pull down the old brickwork when doing renos.
It also depends on the roof loading onto the walls ie fan strutting? Your Engineer should look at every possible load combination to make your case
If you require more info leave a PM
Cheers
Chris[/quote:3j4jv22w]

Hello AandM

I am thinking of having my mortar tested as well. My contract says that they could use up to a mix of 1:1:10 but the majority of mixes had to be 1:1:7 to 1:1:9.
We built with Henley Homes and I've been spending hours going through our contract, specifications and the AS.
The mortar for our house is so soft it crumbles between your hands.
There are so many issues with our house as well that I don't know where to start.
Do you mind mentioning who your builder is and have you thought about going to court?

Have you had anymore luck since your last post? Hope you have. : )

Hi oz3429
Unfortunately, "I didn't know..." Isn't an excuse... caveat emptor
House owners shouldn't expect much support for the courts, government legislation & Consumer protection
Sadly, it's always been that way, Always have the documents, Plans,engineering & build properly inspected
If you knew the consequences during the build, you'd gladly pay the extra $10/bag to increase the mix strength
here
Easy guide to cement Ratios
HTH

Brickies have been made to pull down brick walls in the past in our neck of the woods. I remember a house we built about twenty years ago and while we were building it a big tri-level BV house not far from us was being finished off, all the scaffolding being removed as well. A couple of days later a brick cleaner arrives with his pressure washer and started to clean the bricks. An hour later he packed up and went home??? We couldn't work out why. Two days later a few guys turned up in office clobber and walked around the house poking and prodding the walls. A week later a truck turns up, delivers a lot of scaffold which was erected around the house a day later and they start removing the bricks one by one from the walls. It turns out the mortar was really weak and the brick cleaner even with his pressure turned right down was blasting all the mortar out from between the bricks. All for the sake of a few more bags of cement as you say SBG. I can only wonder what the cost was to the brickie for having to lay all the bricks a second time.

Stewie

Last time my client had the mortar lab tested it was $450