Grouting over tiling spacers

Hi,

I've heard that grouting over tiling spacers is against the building code. Can anyone tell me which code it is against? I want to be fully armed for when I bring this up with my builder

Thanks,
Brian

Where did you hear that from? When in doubt, you can go to the Building Commission website and download their Standards and Tolerances book

I read it from someone's thread on this forum. But they didn't give the details, and they haven't posted here since January so I don't think I can ask them. I didn't find it mentioned in the standards and tolerances 2007 book.

The quickest way to clarify is to contact your building surveyor - the person who has issued your building permit.

It is irrelevant if this is your 'builders' nominated Building Surveyor because by law, the Building Surveyor acts for you and NOT the builder.

The Building Surveyor will answer you but if you feel you are getting the run around then call the Building Department at your local Council to get a second opinion.

Hope that helps.

Thanks builda, I will track them down and see what they say.

grouting is described in clause 5.7 of AS3958.1, i will have a read tomorrow morning.

found this also

http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/re ... IDE_07.pdf

check out top of page 49

Thanks architect.. mine has definitely become loose after only 6 months. Some pieces have come out altogether which is how I found there are spacers underneath.

How would you remove the spacers before grouting? I would say they stay, but I'm just using logic, not standards.

Well the instructions on the grout they used at my house (Dunlop) says to remove the spacers before grouting. We haven't had any problems yet with the downstairs tiles though, done over concrete. And I assume they left the spacers in there too. It's upstairs that we've had trouble with grout cracking and eventually breaking out in chunks. And it seems to be the corners that get the worst of it - whether that's just because of movement or if the spacers make it worse I don't know.

My builder is hoping to blame me for the problems, so that's why I want to have a solid fallback - if they didn't do the grout properly in the first place then there's no way they can get out of fixing it.

another example of where tradies laziness causes problems down the line. In no circumstances can I find an exmaple wherein a so called technical advancement has benefitted the end customer - they are brought about ONLY to benefit the builder and his/her tradies.
Leaving spacers in the tiles is ridicoulous and will infact act as a presssure point from where the tile grouting can be pushed out if the spacers move. The correct process is to remove the spacers before grouting.

My spacers were always left standing upright until the tile adhesive had taken. Then the tilers removed them prior to grouting.

I always thought this was the way to do it?

Found it, page 88 of AS 3958.1 - 2007

Under clause 5.7.1 Grouting it states

(a) Remove strings, ropes or pegs before grouting. Spacing inserts should be removed in conjunction with the preparation of grouting. NOTE: Spacers may impair the performance of the system if left in place.

PM me if you want some more info from page 88

architect

Thanks very much architect! That's exactly what I was looking for.

Does the standard say anything about tiling on the second floor of a house, where the floor might be a bit flexible? The floor is joists with those wooden boards on top. I think our problems are due to a combination of the flexibility and the spacers being left in.

Its hard to know exactly what might have caused this. Yes it is lazy to leave spacers in the joints but as long as the tilers achived a few millimeters of cover over the spacer they should be ok. A more likely option is that the grout was mixed with to much water thus diluting its adhesive ability OR that the grout was not worked into the joint enough. Anyway once it start to fall out the rest of it follows. Get them to cut the grout out and start again.

If grout is falling out of your tiles because of a "flexible" floor then the least of your worries is the grout...the question to ask your builder is. Why is my floor flexible???

Contrary to what some believe the spacers are not actually designed to go flat into the corners of the tiles. They are designed to sit facing out between two tiles and when done properly there is then no drama in taking them out as there is then a 'handle' to simply pull.

yes this is correct.

I don't think there is any direct ISO 9000 standard on tiling process, only the finished product.

If your tiles are moving under floor I would say they used the wrong grout, perhaps they've used wall grout on the floor...
Floor grout should always be sand based grout, which allows movement, whereas cheaper (ready mix) wall grout is quicker (hence more desirable) to use.

Either way, the builder should address the fact that the tiles have come apart.

I'd get an tiler to come and give me feedback on the job, ask if they'll put it in writing so you can use it when formally complaining.

If you are in Melb, I can give you a name of a tiling teacher (now retired) who would assist you. He is one of the best, his comments would be hard to disagree with. He now teaches at the local TAFE part time.

If you're not in Melb, just go to the local TAFE and see if you can get a teacher to come out and give you a report, they'd probably only charge a small fee.

GOOD LUCK
(Pm if you want the Melb tiler's name & number)