Hi tried seraching for this subject but could not find the info.
I want to attach a small single story room to the back of my house and I am planning on putting in some concert stumps and lay a floating floor.
Is there a guide as to how many you need and to what depth? My soil is very sandy so is there also a guide to depth as well.
Many thanks.
Concrete stumps how many?
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As Matt says, there are several steps that need to be taken to progress through to documentation for a Building Application.
You're local Council may be able to assist with names of building designers or failing that the Building Designers website may be of assistance.
You're local Council may be able to assist with names of building designers or failing that the Building Designers website may be of assistance.
Hi tried seraching for this subject but could not find the info.
I want to attach a small single story room to the back of my house and I am planning on putting in some concert stumps and lay a floating floor.
Is there a guide as to how many you need and to what depth? My soil is very sandy so is there also a guide to depth as well.
Many thanks.
I want to attach a small single story room to the back of my house and I am planning on putting in some concert stumps and lay a floating floor.
Is there a guide as to how many you need and to what depth? My soil is very sandy so is there also a guide to depth as well.
Many thanks.
Good advice from Matt and Peter but the direct answer to your question is that you will be able to copy the layout and stump spacing of your existing floor.(BCA allows that provided existing building has been in service without structural issues) however for stump depths check with your council or excavate down the side of one stump to check and then match that.
Under no circumstances try and copy the existing stump spacing without getting expert advice on bearer spans, joist spans & the like. The founding depth of the current stumps can be used if the soil profile in the new area is the same & there has been no structural issues as 'building expert' says.
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Hi Building expert,
Can you please point me to the section of the BCA where it states that the existing structure can simply be copied?
Just because the existing structure may have complied 100 years ago doesnt mean it does today.
If we kept operating on yesterdays standards and procedures what is the point of all the examinations and improvements brought about after examining previous failures from storms, floods and fires etc?
Can you please point me to the section of the BCA where it states that the existing structure can simply be copied?
Just because the existing structure may have complied 100 years ago doesnt mean it does today.
If we kept operating on yesterdays standards and procedures what is the point of all the examinations and improvements brought about after examining previous failures from storms, floods and fires etc?
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Hi Expert,
Thanks for the reply,
Yes, that is correct with the footings, and there are similar clauses regarding the use of previous soil tests, the thing is, without the original working drawings how is one meant to know whats under the ground without digging it up?
I was more referring to wording permitting the copy of existing timber sizes.
Fair comment on the larger wall stud sizes etc, but back then there were less considerations for tiedown requirements assumingly because the higher joint group and sizing of the timber was deemed satisfactory.
Since the down sizing of the wall frame work there is now much more emphasis on bracing and tiedown requirements to make the whole thing work as a complete system.
With floor joists though the sizing has gone upwards.
How many houses these days have joists specified as 75x50 or 100x50?
Anyway,
with all this aside, why would you suggest using non complient sizes simply because it isnt being assesed?
Also, why not just give a simple direction to where to find span tables etc?
For all we know the existing joists could be used in a continous situation and the extension could be single span.
Also, consideration needs to be given to the increased load on the existing house bearer.
My point is it wouldnt be that hard to direct to, or relay sizes on basic requirements which was the original question
Thanks for the reply,
Yes, that is correct with the footings, and there are similar clauses regarding the use of previous soil tests, the thing is, without the original working drawings how is one meant to know whats under the ground without digging it up?
I was more referring to wording permitting the copy of existing timber sizes.
Fair comment on the larger wall stud sizes etc, but back then there were less considerations for tiedown requirements assumingly because the higher joint group and sizing of the timber was deemed satisfactory.
Since the down sizing of the wall frame work there is now much more emphasis on bracing and tiedown requirements to make the whole thing work as a complete system.
With floor joists though the sizing has gone upwards.
How many houses these days have joists specified as 75x50 or 100x50?
Anyway,
with all this aside, why would you suggest using non complient sizes simply because it isnt being assesed?
Also, why not just give a simple direction to where to find span tables etc?
For all we know the existing joists could be used in a continous situation and the extension could be single span.
Also, consideration needs to be given to the increased load on the existing house bearer.
My point is it wouldnt be that hard to direct to, or relay sizes on basic requirements which was the original question
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Thanks for your comment 33amc
I was simply pointing out that it is quite legal to build a small room without permit under certain circumstances, even with undersized members, however I was not advocating that it should be done with undersized members.
All I am saying is that if no permit is required then it makes sense to copy what is there provided it has been satisfactory in service. That is just common sense.
If a permit is required then someone like Peter will know what to do and will size up members from The Timber Framing Manual AS 1684 and if it's tricky then someone like Matt will ensure structural safety.
OP does not have to concern himself with timber sizes but can buy AS 1684 for reference if required or if he intends to do his own plans which he is allowed to do providing he can satisfy Building Surveyor.
Building legislation is prescriptive, saying that you will comply if you follow AS1684 but is not restrictive and you can come up with alternative solution and if you can satisfy Building Surveyor it's all systems go.
I was simply pointing out that it is quite legal to build a small room without permit under certain circumstances, even with undersized members, however I was not advocating that it should be done with undersized members.
All I am saying is that if no permit is required then it makes sense to copy what is there provided it has been satisfactory in service. That is just common sense.
If a permit is required then someone like Peter will know what to do and will size up members from The Timber Framing Manual AS 1684 and if it's tricky then someone like Matt will ensure structural safety.
OP does not have to concern himself with timber sizes but can buy AS 1684 for reference if required or if he intends to do his own plans which he is allowed to do providing he can satisfy Building Surveyor.
Building legislation is prescriptive, saying that you will comply if you follow AS1684 but is not restrictive and you can come up with alternative solution and if you can satisfy Building Surveyor it's all systems go.
It's pretty clear that Panman55 doesn't have access to the reference material (Australian Standards, load tables, design codes, etc.) or people in the engineering or construction industry to get their answer, hence the question on this forum.
The post makes no mention of the size of the extension but does mention questionable ground.
The only replies that make any sense are from "cornellengineers" and "ausdesign" who both say (and I'm paraphrasing a bit) GO AND SEEK PROFESIONAL ADVISE!
Giving detailed advise based on assumptions (re-read the first post, Panman55 provided no details whatsoever) and quoting sections from AS / BCA does nothing to help Panman55.
Here's a scenario to consider.....
What if Panman55 takes your advice literally and builds the 'little' extension based on the existing size of piers/flooring members but either doesn't put the correct type/size of footings down or builds over a sewer line that collapses taking the extension with it. "Building-expert" are you going to take responsibility for it? Panman55 just followed your advice as "....it makes sense to copy what is there..."
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In no cases is an extension to a dwelling exempt from a building permit under shedule 8. Only free-standing class 10 buildings (sheds) under 10m2 are exempt. I hate to say it but a building expert you ain't. Be careful giving out wrong advice on public forums. I suggest you read the regulations before you quote them. At the end of the day a Building Surveyor will only accept plans that are of a reasonable standard. If someone is asking how many stumps they need then they will need professional assistance to produce those plans.
In no cases is an extension to a dwelling exempt from a building permit under shedule 8. Only free-standing class 10 buildings (sheds) under 10m2 are exempt. I hate to say it but a building expert you ain't. Be careful giving out wrong advice on public forums. I suggest you read the regulations before you quote them. At the end of the day a Building Surveyor will only accept plans that are of a reasonable standard. If someone is asking how many stumps they need then they will need professional assistance to produce those plans.
Hi thebuildingsurv
On checking schedule 8 again I agree that you are correct and I have misinterpreted. This also means that Matt and Peter were correct also. I unreservedly withdraw my posts and apologise to anyone that may have been misled and particularly to Panman55, Matt and Peter
If you are going to add a room to your house you must get a building permit.
Thank you for your comment and for pointing out my error.
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