tiles on top of vino/vinal

We want to tile our small kitchen which currently has lino on floor. the lino is fully stuck to floor and not budging which means we will have to hire equipment to get it up. Has anyone experience with tiling over vino?

Am also interested in anyone's experience with this. My current kitchen floor is vinyl laid on a concrete slab, very old, I think the original (70's) and one of the possible problems of removing it, as discussed on another thread, is that apparently there could well be asbestos in the original glues/underlay. If possible I would prefer not to go down this track.

I would dearly love to have ceramic tiles over this and continue through the laundry, toilet and bathroom (which are currently tiled with small hexagonal mosaic tiles and possibly also with asbestos product underneath). This is a small place and so I think the same floor treatment for all these areas would be better - well, that's how I'm thinking at present.

I suppose laying on top of existing vinyl and tiles (if it IS possible) will raise the height a little and perhaps that will affect door clearance ? On the other hand I am probably going for new doors anyway. There would be a small height difference also where the kitchen butts on to the carpeted living area and maybe there is some way around this ?

Oh I suppose i could just lay fresh vinyl but if it t'were possible, the same treatment all through would be great.

Here's my take on the question. It's been about 15 years since I was an apprentice flooring installer and gave it up, so take it with a grain of salt:)

I think the answer depends on a couple things.

What kind of floor is under the vinyl? If timber, response is different to say concrete.

What kind of Vinyl is it? The really soft stuff, or hard thick stuff?

If it were me, I would never install tiles over the top of vinyl, I would remove it first. If you're on a slab it's not hard at all, you just need a scraper and blades. IF on timber, it's a bit harder, but still worth it in the finished product if you ask me.

Now, if you are determined to go over the top of it, sure you can.

If you have timber underneath it, I would lay cement ceramic tile underlay over the top first screwed to the floor, then lay the tile on top of that. You might run into some thickness problems doing this in transition to other floor areas though.

If it's concrete slab underneath AND it's the hard thick vinyl, I would float over the top of it with a flooring plaster, then lay tile on top of that. If it's really soft stuff, I would glue cement ceramic tile underlay over the top of it with flooring adhesive, then lay the tile on top of that.

Good luck!!:)

Can I throw in my 2c worth about tiling older kitchens; if your kitchen has a concrete slab, no problem.

But we have an older house with a floorboards base and were told tiles these days can go onto floorboards.

Well, I wish we never did it; after couple of years fine hairline cracks appear in tiles, more and more of them, they get bigger and bigger; the floorboards move and expand/contract with the weather but the tiles don't hence fine cracks develop.
In the end, after only few years, we replaced the tiles with a floating floor: no problems since.

This is not a comment about tiling over lino etc, just about tiling at all on floorboard bases.

Did you guys use any cement underlay between the floorboards and the tile? If not I can see why you'd have that problem.

A long time ago in the US they used to put this stuff down in the 2nd story on top of the floorboards called Elastiseal. It was a sort of self leveling concrete, but very thin layer. I remember I hated scraping those floors to get ready for carpet and tile becuase the stuff chipped so easy and the scraper dug into it. I would have thought something like that would have caught on, but I've never seen it in any construction anywhere except California US, and some thick stuff on Grand Designs in UK.

Then again, usually the floor on 2nd storeys in California is timber joists, with cheap chipboard laid on top of that directly. No floorboards, so I don't think there's as much movement.

Greg

Greg, it was done professionally with whatever the tiler told us was the thing needed to apply tiles to floorboard bases, I know something went underneath the tiles but couldn't tell you what.

The house is on a concrete slab throughout.

The vinyl in the kitchen area is very thin, was probably soft originally but now quite hard and brittle - in fact if you lift up a corner near the door etc it will break off quite easily. This has happened in a few places and underneath all I can see is concrete and dust but no real sign of any adhesive although I suppose there was originally? I'm not too good at measurements but I would think about no more than 1 to 2mm thick if that. It is so brittle that it actually cuts.

The kitchen runs into the laundry then bathroom and toilet and those areas the mosaic tiles are in good condition and probably much younger. I just hate them because they are white but with random other colours of black, brown and mustard - yuk!

These are thicker, about 2 - 3mm. They are small, 3 1/2 cm across and the grout is just impossible to clean except with a toothbrush and down on all fours - and my days for that are long over!

Because this is a small place I would love to have the same tiling through all these areas .

There may be a problem too with the walk-in shower recess which is tiled with the same ceramic little tiles - it is only a little step down from the bathroom floor level, maybe a couple of centimetres and I'm not sure whether the floor tiles could continue on in there? I am thinking of the tiles throughout being quite big ones, maybe 30cm or so square. Not sure how that would go in the shower recess. If too much hassle I don't want to risk problems and could live with them as is if necessary or painting them over if that's possible? They had damp/seepage problems in the shower before apparently although no sign now at all but I would prefer to let sleeping dogs lie.

The main problem with removal of the existing tiles and vinyl and preference for tiling over is the concern that has been raised about the possibility of asbestos products undeneath or in the residual glue. My council are no help, just told me to get an analysis by a laboratory but this seems easier said than done after having phoned several labs who seemed to think I was nuts!

I have had the carpets up and replaced several times and that's on the same slab and I don't recall there being anything there but a lot of dust and dirt which (in my then ignorance of the possibility of asbestos?) I simply swept up before the carpet layers came.

The council do say that asbestos products were used in houses here until mid eighties but can offer little further information.

I'm thinking of just getting some tilers in to have a look but then I am not sure that some of them wouldn't just say "She'll be right Love" and go ahead anyway.

Unfortunately, I think your council is right, the only way to know if there is any asbestos in the vinyl backing or glue used is to get some tested.

I have only lived in this country for two years, and I have no idea if any asbestos was used in the flooring or adhesives here. My guess would be no, I can't see any reason to use it in those materials really, but you wouldn't want to take any chances with your health.

If you're that concerned about it, do two things. Either have someone remove all the flooring when you're not there one day, or get a mask with cannister filters on them rated for asbestos and do it yourself. The people that do it for a living only use that kind of protection, no other special breathing apparatus.

When I paint inside I have a mask like above that has removable cannisters. They come in various filters, like the ones I have filter organic vapour. I know you can get these for asbestos fibers, see like these Half mask twin filter: http://www.bigsafety.com.au/category13_1.htm

The NSW asbestos guide doesn't mention flooring products at all, I doubt you have anything to worry about.

Greg