Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Apr 20, 2017 10:58 am Hi folks, We're currently building a double-storey brick veneer home in NSW with a fairly large builder with a good reputation. We're expecting to have our PC inspection next week. We noticed a few months ago (and brought it up with the supervisor at the time) that the mortar between the brick courses is thicker at the upper 1/3 of the wall than it is below. I haven't been up with a ladder to measure it, but you can see it a mile away - the mortar is that much thicker at the top of the house that the whole upper third of the wall looks noticeably much lighter in colour compared to the lower 2/3. It's not a gradual change either - it's a really sudden increase in thickness, which makes it even more noticeable. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ From research I've done elsewhere, I've learned that it's probably not going to cause any structural issues, and that as long as all of the mortar is between 7mm and 13mm in thickness, it's within code. The supervisor said it would be within code if it was under 15mm. Whether it meets code or not, it just looks like really sloppy workmanship, and it's a little embarrassing. When our neighbours build, their house will essentially block most of the view of that wall, so in the long run no-one will notice. But our issue is that we've paid what to us is a phenomenal amount of money, and we're not happy with the standard of the finish. Has anyone else had an issue similar to this? What are our options? I don't want to be that really painful customer the builder hates, but I don't want to let this slide if it's something that can/should be addressed. I don't expect that it can be fixed, and we don't want to paint or render the wall. Some of our friends are saying we should ask for some kind of recompense - like a rebate to cover some of the cost of our fencing and/or landscaping, which we'll be doing ourselves after settlement. Would it be reasonable to make a request like that? And how would we go about it? Would we need to get an independent inspector out to have a look? Thanks in advance for ANY advice... Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 2Apr 20, 2017 11:35 am Threepwood Welcome to the forum and thanks for the photo unfortunately you haven't provided enough Info please provide the following 1.Close up of the joint, look for air bubbles in the mortar joint 2. Photos of a scratch test using say a key before and after 3. For indication of scale use a tape measure in the photo 4.Make sure you have a complete copy including revisions of the engineering Drawings & Specifications 5.Written & Email confirmations of all on site discussions with SS 6.Is that wall on the weather side? 7. 8.etc BTW don't let anyone fool you into believing that wall isn't load bearing additional info here Structural Masonry code inspections Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 3Apr 21, 2017 8:29 am I'm pretty confident this brickwork is not load bearing - the frames, windows and roof trusses were all done before brickwork started. It's really just the aesthetics I'm most concerned about. Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 4Apr 21, 2017 9:11 am threepwood the wall may not be supporting Roof & Floor loads..but there are also wind loads and self loads (approx 15 Tonnes of brickwork) to consider, the codes AS3700 also deals with mortar strength and durability. Also I am not sure of your location,ie coastal M4 Mortar, etc,etc What you want to avoid is long term gradual mortar deterioration which may require expensive Scaffolding and Repointing or rendering outside of the Maintenance & Structural warranty periods.HTH Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 5Apr 21, 2017 9:49 am We're not coastal - out in Western Sydney, about 50km from the coast. We're in a BAL 19 zone - not sure if that's relevant. I can't see anything in the tender or spec about M4 mortar. If repointing or other repairs were necessary at some point in the future, and were attributable solely to the mortar being thicker, is there any way to estimate the likely cost of having to do those repairs? Thanks Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 7Apr 21, 2017 10:28 am The whole point of face brickwork is nice and uniform maintenance free appearance or else it would be common brickwork and you would not pay more for face bricks. So if you have brickwork that does not look uniform and nice you have a problem, you have paid for something you did not get. The fault is with the builder because the builder is paid handsomely (by you) to supervise and ensure quality and consistency. As this is a large builder with a good reputation (I don't believe in reputation, you are only as good as your last job, and this one isn't pretty) there will be a display home that enticed you to contract with this builder. You are entitled to at least the same quality as the display home or the minimum standard whichever is higher(assuming your specification does not specify something higher). Plainly (if your brickwork is as you have described it) you have been short changed. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 8Apr 21, 2017 10:29 am threepwood if its not coastal then it's not M4 Poor workmanship, gaps, tolerances, etc. generally is an indicator or marker for clients to have it checked against the codes.At least put the builder on notice Generally thicker mortar decreases the strength by 10%, coupled this with wrong/weaker mix, gradual long term erosion/weathering, etc,etc Renders adds no structural capacity to weak mortar/brickwork then you start to see cracks ie around windows... External Walls, vents, gaps <3mm,etc are dealt with AS3959 Construction for BAL19 Mate I have SS & Trades try to, fob me off while laughing on site, most times , Thats until I tell them I am an engineer & it's "non compliant and not fit for purpose", Then the onus is put back onto the builders engineers, The builders Building inspectors/surveyors don't even come into play. BTW If you want to scare someone get a bigger dog/bark Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 9Apr 21, 2017 10:55 am Thanks guys. So we have PCI on Monday and theoretically settlement about 10 days later. Do you think it would be reasonable and worthwhile to contact the builder's head office (i.e. skip past the supervisor) and ask for some kind of rebate/compensation to recognise the poor quality finish and/or potential costs of repairs further down the track? If so, what would be a reasonable figure to ask? And if it was your house and you were talking to the builder, how would you approach it? First time doing all of this, and zero industry experience as you might have guessed... Thanks again. Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 10Apr 21, 2017 11:22 am threepwood I would be postponing PCI and then checking the brickwork Appearance is worth $1K or some free paving Repointing is about $10-$15K LOL....You work it out before you meet them "forewarned is forearmed" Goodluck Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 11Apr 21, 2017 3:37 pm your SS does not have any authority so yes go to the top. You may need assistance from experienced building consultant Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Varying mortar thickness - what are our options? 12Apr 21, 2017 5:42 pm We are having similar issues with out of spec bed joints all over our bricked area and we are quite close to coastal area!! Our builder was talking about financial compensation but maybe we should be looking at getting it completely fixed and them covering costs during this time!?!? We are about 1 week from handover too Hi, I am planning to select San Selmo reclaimed original for the fascade of my build. I have seen many photos on line of the brick varying from a rustic to a neat finish.… 0 4577 Building Standards; Getting It Right! Hi, sorry if this is the wrong place - Iām new to the property/building journey (trying to buy my first home) so not sure where/who to go with these sorts of… 0 19156 2 8874 |