Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 5Feb 01, 2013 8:30 am Sounds about right, we've specced an ESP Ultima, and it's a 7.5k upgrade over the Classic I'd very much like to hear more from Iceman on the partial speed efficiency, one of the big selling features is the efficiency at lower speeds, do you have any figures to back up what you're saying? Slooowwwwly getting a Manhatten 35 in Middleton Grange Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 6Feb 01, 2013 9:05 am MR2 Sounds about right, we've specced an ESP Ultima, and it's a 7.5k upgrade over the Classic I'd very much like to hear more from Iceman on the partial speed efficiency, one of the big selling features is the efficiency at lower speeds, do you have any figures to back up what you're saying? Emerson manufactures a scroll compressor that is capable of varying the refrigerant flow as per requirement. Instead of fixing the scrolls together permanently, the scrolls are allowed to move apart periodically. As the scrolls move apart, the motor continues to turn but the scrolls lose the ability to compress refrigerant, thus motor power is reduced when the scroll compressor is not pumping. By alternating the two different working states: the loaded state and the unloaded state. A solenoid contracts and expands the rotating scroll and/or the fixed scroll, using axial compliance. The controller modifies the load time, and the unload time, matching the capacity of the compressor to the load requested. This type of scroll compressors while offering variable capacity control, normally down to 20% of the full flow, can suffer from a significant loss of efficiency especially toward the lower range of the capacity control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_com ... tal_scroll Emerson manufactures the Copeland compressors used by Actron. You can also spend a few hours reading http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com if you have the inclination. This is nothing new... it's been well known throughout the AC industry for ages. There are many very good reasons for purchasing an Actron but the supposed efficiency is not one of them. People think that because the compressor can reduce its output to around 10% then it must be using only 10% of its' rated electrical input, which is not true. The Copeland compressor runs at 100% speed all the time and varies its' output by opening and closing a valve. Ironically as the system load gets lower it makes more noise. Actron's are good machines and we sell them on the basis of being Australian made, rated to 50C, reliable and simple to maintain, variable speed fancoil, individual temperature control (limited) in each zone with the Ultima. But telling people it will only draw 10% of its' rated power input is just not true. Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 7Feb 01, 2013 9:30 am Very interesting and good info, so the motor does not stop spinning or even reduce speed, the efficiency of the compression through the scrolls just drops, sad really... if I can bother you for a moment more of your time, why would they not reduce the speed of the motor? I assume that reducing the load on the motor does not effect the draw of the motor that much? any idea's on actual min and max power draw? keep in mind Actron only claim 40 or 50% reduction in power at the lowest rate, not down to 10% Slooowwwwly getting a Manhatten 35 in Middleton Grange Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 8Feb 01, 2013 11:24 am MR2 Very interesting and good info, so the motor does not stop spinning or even reduce speed, the efficiency of the compression through the scrolls just drops, sad really... if I can bother you for a moment more of your time, why would they not reduce the speed of the motor? I assume that reducing the load on the motor does not effect the draw of the motor that much? any idea's on actual min and max power draw? keep in mind Actron only claim 40 or 50% reduction in power at the lowest rate, not down to 10% You'd have to ask Emerson or Actron those questions I think... Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 9Feb 01, 2013 11:32 am So here I am pondering on the Actron when one of the guys from a popular dealer tells me this:
"One of the most common questions from Actron customers who seek my advice is why their power bill is that astronomically high, although the unit only has to handle a small part of the units full capacity. The answer is simple. It’s old scroll motor technology from the late 90s (introduced by Hitachi) and only runs “efficiently” at full load. Ford&Doonan would promote it if it was good. Only Inverter technology has been adopted as part of our above industry standard and so far for years nothing beats Daikin" Then he quoted me on this: "Like every year, an increasing part of our business is the removal, change over or relocation of outdoor units that have been installed by others. Just 2 weeks ago I signed up a customer in East Fremantle to relocate 2 Actron outdoor units for $5,300.00 each. A project in South Perth was over $17,000 because the customer decided to change to Daikin and take the installer to court. ". So now I got stumped every time some dealer says something different on a competitor's product. Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 11Feb 01, 2013 12:02 pm MR2 I wonder if Choice has ever done a review on the ducted systems (not just split systems) I don't think so. There are so many variations in the install it would make it quite difficult. And I wouldn't be paying too much attention to their reviews of splits either. Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 13Feb 01, 2013 12:42 pm http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/ ... #r21873796 This is leading me to believe your wrong? taken from here: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/ ... #r21873796 Slooowwwwly getting a Manhatten 35 in Middleton Grange Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 14Feb 01, 2013 12:43 pm and this here contains interesting info... http://www.airah.org.au/imis15_prod/Con ... 011-AS.pdf Slooowwwwly getting a Manhatten 35 in Middleton Grange Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 15Feb 15, 2013 10:12 am Hey Not sure about Icemans point was about the ActronAir product Quote "There are many very good reasons for purchasing an Actron but the supposed efficiency is not one of them Well ActronAir claims they can save up to 60% against a std system with their ESP Plus products Its in writing on their brochures and has been for years http://www.actronair.com.au/UserFiles/A ... 20-%20LR(2).pdf The ACCC protects consumers with regards to this sort of stuff Actron even won an award for the product at ARBS the Air Conditioning, Refrigeration and Building Services industry show for environmental/ innovative product of the year So As far as I can tell energy efficiency actually is a reason Also Aussie, local network of dealers, service support and 30 years in business Not sure what the Imported Daikins LG Fujitsu and such are claiming that they want to put in writing How much can they save percentage wise? Anyone seen anything? Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 16Feb 15, 2013 1:11 pm We have a SRD 230c unit. it was installed in our new build. We have used the heating function but only a small amount. Heated the house (approx 350sqm)without a problem. During summer with the weather the way it's been, it has cooled what I think pretty effortlessly, as the airflow reduces almost to the point you cannot feel it for lengthy periods. Basically it works so well we keep increasing the temp as it starts so that you start to feel to cold. As for noise, we cannot hear the unit inside. Outside the only noise you hear is the fans running, which certainly isn't loud and the noise the switches make cutting the fans in and out. It probably could be described as a clunk, but again it is not that loud. We're waiting on the official power bill but an enquiry has found that it is dearer than an evaporative system, surprise, but cools a LOT better, but has not cost the earth and has been used every day in the billing period. We had teething problems, but that was installation related, not the unit's fault. At this point in time I am more than happy with the unit. Settlement 1/2/12 New Shed 23/3/12 Slab poured 27/3/12 Frame complete 4/5/12 Roof complete 1/6/12 LOCKUP 29/6/12 Our new build blog http://kareenhillsownerbuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 17Feb 15, 2013 1:49 pm jethro68 ActronAir claims they can save up to 60% against a std system with their ESP Plus products Its in writing on their brochures and has been for years http://www.actronair.com.au/UserFiles/A ... 20-%20LR(2).pdf This is a huge red herring. There are so many variables in there it's not funny. jethro68 Hey Not sure about Icemans point was about the ActronAir product If you read what I said at the bottom you'd see... Lots of good reasons to buy an Actron but supposed energy efficiency isn't one of them. At the end of the day you just have to step back and have a serious look. If this digital scroll was so good do you really think no other manufacturer would be using it? Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 18Feb 15, 2013 1:58 pm we would be a lot more convinced if you had any reputable independent tests showing how it does/doesn't work against other systems showing actual system usage etc, I don't mean this in a nasty way just that I bet that how most people reading this are viewing it.. I have a question... is it possible to get all the wiring and ducting done and then install the units later? how would the aircon guys install the unit in the roof after the house is finished? just cut a huge hole in the roof? Slooowwwwly getting a Manhatten 35 in Middleton Grange Re: Actron Air conditioning ducting ESP Series vs Daikin 20Feb 15, 2013 2:23 pm honestly I would not accept data provided directly by Actron as independant, I'd love to see a choice report on it or something, I actually trust them! if we can squeeze in the upgrade I might actually throw a clamp meter around mine and see what it says, that's 12 months off though. 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