Browse Forums Eco Living 1 Sep 09, 2012 2:36 pm Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 2Sep 09, 2012 3:41 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 3Sep 11, 2012 7:15 pm Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 4Sep 11, 2012 11:33 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 5Sep 12, 2012 12:03 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 7Sep 12, 2012 12:28 pm That is pleasing to hear. Thanks. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 8Sep 13, 2012 11:48 am SaveH2O,thank-you so much for your informative reply & the time it took to type it out What a wonderland of knowledge & i'm glad some others can use it too. I think i will print out your reply & sit down with our friend,i dont follow all your points but get the general drift. Lets see how well he has thought all this out & what he will charge. Any other pointers & i would welcome them,cheers heaps kat. Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 9Sep 13, 2012 5:06 pm Hi Kat, My last reply should be seen at this stage as a generalisation as there are things l don't know that need to be factored. These include... ROOF AREA. This will determine the size and number of sub surface pipes needed. The 1:20 ARI for Perth is an average of 2.5 mm per minute over a 5 minute duration but the pipe's flow capacity should be factored for more than this to allow for wind driven rain. HEIGHT OF GUTTERS The available head will be calculated from the bottom of the leaf diverters as these also provide an air break between the upper section of downpipe. The tank is 2.2 m high and the fall of land is 2 metres, this means that the water level in the tank when full will be roughly the same level as the ground at the house. If .5 of a metre is deducted from the height of the downpipes to allow for the leaf diverters and let's say the gutters are 2.4 metres high, you would have about 1.9 metres head. This is huge! DISTANCE OF TANK FROM THE HOUSE AND THE GRADIENT The tank's water level will (when it isn't raining) determine the water level in the wet system if you use an additional low restriction inlet. EDIT 9th March 2014: Tidy up. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 11Sep 15, 2012 2:56 am Kat, I looked at your blog and checked your Builder's website. Your roof area (including verandah) is too large for a single 100 mm charged horizontal pipe feeding the tank to operate with a large safety margin. Given the cost of the alternative 150 mm pipe and fittings including the tank inlet plus other hydraulic and air flushing issues, you would be best served to use 2 separate 100 mm pipes and tank inlets. Have the 2 pipes flowing away from each other around the house as already posted but then converge both pipes into the one trench. The labour time would have little difference. Your installer will also need to check the local regulations to see whether the installation has to comply with local stormwater drainage regulations or for separate regulations for on site detention. Plumbing charged systems to rainwater tanks does not usually come under stormwater drainage (l have yet to come across it) but l don't know Perth regulations as the regulations vary from state to state and even intra state. For example, the importance of ground water recharge in W.A. is high but not so in some other states (although it should be). Also google "Storz 65 mm fire connection fitting with ball valve". If you are required or otherwise want to have a connection that can be connected to by the rural fire service, this is most likely the one you need. I assume you already have your guttering done. Will you have a leaf/gutter problem where you are? I hope not as l could have given you some really good advice here. You will soon have a full water tank when harvesting your total roof area plus another 100 sq m off a shed. There are many ways to use water that would otherwise be an excess and you should consider supplying water to... HWS. (High use but unfortunately rarely considered). Laundry (2nd cold water tap for washing machine). The most 'popular' toilet. Garden tap(s). If you can, have a tall tank at the house and steer clear of Slimline tanks as they are expensive, prone to failure and practically impossible to clean. This latter point should not be a problem in your case however as the water will be very clean in the big tank plus it will be transferred from above the anaerobic zone. Steer clear of using small hoses to transfer the water - this also includes the garden hose! A bit of trivia! Did you know that toilets flush in the key E flat? Do you know why left handed Australians on average use less water annually to flush the toilet? Clue: it has nothing to do with the fact that there are fewer left handed persons. Do you know why the flush toilet came by the nicknames "the throne" and "the John"? Clue: the answers are 'related'. Only Google after you give up! BTW; Happy birthday! 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 12Sep 15, 2012 10:55 am SaveH2O ... you would be best served to use 2 separate 100 mm pipes and tank inlets. What I did notice during our recent Sydney La Nina is, when the tank is full, the pipe outgoing into street gutter did not get rid of all the incoming rainwater quickly enough, so the tank was overflowing literally like a pot that's boiling over! Not good IMO, as the tank is always alongside the house walls. SaveH2O Have the 2 pipes flowing away from each other around the house as already posted but then converge both pipes into the one trench. The labour time would have little difference. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 13Sep 15, 2012 12:41 pm Cheers for your answer again & your birthday wishes,thats lovely of you Ok i think this is mor involved then what my friend has been talking about doing & we may need to take out a second mortage We are going out on sunday to run some piping under the sand infront of the garage before the paving goes down which is a good idea. We do want to plumb into the house abit later from the water tank & we had also talked about grey water systems,as you know you just cant have it all at the same time. I believe it is easy to add a grey water unit later,is this true Also re the gutter guard,yes we will be doing that as we are near a state forrest & the estate has tough tree removal laws. In the end we want to do everything poss to not only save money but do our bit at saving water etc....... We are alittle bit green in our household. Our friend also mentioned the leaf cleaner thingy,but what he was talking about was something you added to the piping that looked like a bottlebrush flower (his words) in pipe,he said you dont need all the fancy things & this will work well. I'm alittle worried he is taking an easy way out,do you know what his talking about. Also do you need the storm water all attached to the tank straight away as summer is coming on we thought maybe it did not need to be but def before winter. This would give us time to save more dollars. cherrs kat Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 14Sep 15, 2012 3:01 pm Hi Lex, I take it that you have 2 wet system pipes feeding your tank. There are a number of issues here. The most serious are... Potential stagnation and blockage issues in both underground pipes due to insufficient flushing velocities up the vertical risers. The inflow exceeds the tank's overflow capacity. I could advise of an easy and inexpensive fix but it involves a proprietary product and the recommendation would therefore be considered spam. Forums have limitations and the best advice can often not be given. SaveH2O Have the 2 pipes flowing away from each other around the house as already posted but then converge both pipes into the one trench. The labour time would have little difference. Instead of having a single unbroken pipe collecting from all of the downpipes (which in Kat's case would need to be 150 mm due to the roof area), l am suggesting that the downpipes be (seal) connected to 2 separate 100 mm pipes. These pipes would begin from their own downpipe at the front and then be trenched separately down the opposite sides of the house. After they reach the back of the house, they would share the same trench on their run to the tank and feed into the tank through 2 separate inlet valves. The person doing the install would need to work out the trenching as l am on the opposite side of the country and l cannot see the property but it is fairly simple as basically the same trenching would need to be done if a single larger pipe was picking up the discharge from all downpipes and then diverting to the tank. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 15Sep 15, 2012 3:55 pm kerry-ann 1. Ok i think this is mor involved then what my friend has been talking about doing & we may need to take out a second mortage 2. I believe it is easy to add a grey water unit later,is this true 3. Also re the gutter guard,yes we will be doing that as we are near a state forrest & the estate has tough tree removal laws. 4. Our friend also mentioned the leaf cleaner thingy,but what he was talking about was something you added to the piping that looked like a bottlebrush flower (his words) in pipe,he said you dont need all the fancy things & this will work well. I'm alittle worried he is taking an easy way out,do you know what his talking about. 5. Also do you need the storm water all attached to the tank straight away as summer is coming on we thought maybe it did not need to be but def before winter. Hi Kat, 1. The plumbing is not expensive, it only involves some 100 mm pipe (duplicated from the back of the house to the tank), trenching and 2 X 90 mm inlets. If you used 150 mm DWV pipe and a standard wet system with a vertical riser, it would cost more. If it was planned to run the pipe to a pit and then pump into the tank, you would be up for pits, filter traps, pedestrian covers, pumps, energy costs etc. It would be quite expensive. EDIT 9th March 2014: Re above; note my edit in the September 11th 2012 post. 2. You will have a very large roof harvest area with the addition of the shed. The only grey water l would (and do) use is the final rinse from the washing machine and l only need to do this during our summer. This goes on the back lawn and l have a manual divert valve fitted to the drain pipe outside the laundry. 3. Gutter guard can be a problem as it slows the natural flow of water off the roof to the front of the gutter during heavy rain. This retards flushing and a build up of sediment can result. The best system l have seen is this: http://www.leafsafeguttering.com.au/ The system also allows light penetration which prevents black mould, something you don't want if collecting rainwater. It is also excellent for bush fire prone areas and it really should be mandatory. You could also look at the Fielders Watergate. http://www.fielders.com.au/aspx/Watergate.aspx This is made from zinc, is suitable for eaves gutters 115-125 mm wide, about $40 for a pack of 8 X 1.25 metre lengths and is easy DIY. It is also best if you leave some inspection gaps when you fit it. 4. ABSOLUTELY A BIG NO ON THIS ONE!!! The leaf diverter removes debris. The "bottle brush" (l know the one but l don't want to identify it) does not do this plus it is an obstruction). A REAL BAD IDEA!!! 5. It is generally easier and cheaper to have everything done at the very start. This is what l would do. Labour will be the biggest component. Maybe you could hire a dingo to save money on the trenching. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 16Sep 16, 2012 3:45 pm SaveH2O your a champ,cheers. I have visited friend & cleared afew things up. He is providing a 2 way system around the house,piping going from the front around to the back on one side & then the same to the other around the house. So thats good as with the amount of storm run off even i could see 1 pipe of 90mm would not be suitable. He did say 90mm pipe would be fine because of the 2 lots of piping & was happy for me to want to upgrade to 110mm,he did say it was approx $60 a length or that may have been the 150mm The water would go into the tank from both pipes,not join up like i thought. Have said to him that we dont wont the bottle brush leaf thingy. He is hiring alittle Dingo for the digging. I think the house is approx 30m x 18m & i have again asked for a quote. I will check out the gutter guard in abit. We already have the tank sand pad & trench from the house to the tank pad as this was done during the earthworks. cheers kat Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 17Sep 17, 2012 1:05 pm Hi Kat, It sounds like the flow path is the same as the one we have discussed. I would not use 90 mm PVC for a couple of reasons, some already discussed. When I looked at your house plan, it was clear that 2 X 90 mm PVC pipes would also not have the flow capacity to accommodate a major rain event greater than a 1:20 ARI. The 90 mm PVC stormwater pipe is measured as an outside diameter whereas the 100 mm SN6 PVC DWV pipe has an inside diameter of 104.2 mm, giving the 100 mm pipe a volume that is 46% greater. The flow rates are somewhat complicated by the fact that there is a 2 metre slope and that I cannot see the lay of the land. I have previously mentioned that a 100 mm pipe will flow at approximately 1,000 litres per minute with a 1 metre head over a distance of 30 metres but this is only for what is referred to as 'full flow drainage' and DWV pipe is not suitable for this application. Two 100 mm pipes are cheaper than a 150 mm pipe. The 150 mm pipe has a slightly larger volume than 2 X 100 mm pipes. EDIT 9th March 2014: http://www.pipeonline.com.au/listProduc ... E/DWV+PIPE The DIY sediment traps that I have mentioned are not expensive to fit in and well worth having. The leaf diverters will add considerably to the cost but I have seen the standard Leaf Eaters on sale for $15-20 as the market has really slowed for rain harvesting products. There is a retro fit fine mesh outer filter now available for these and it retails for about $15. If you can find the standard Leaf Eater on special, you could save quite a bit here. The use of leaf/debris diverters with wet systems is mandatory in many areas but they should be used in any case to reduce sediment and prevent mosquito access. If you do fit additional low restriction flow path inlets, you will have to have mosquito proof leaf diverters because water that enters a tank must first pass through mosquito proof mesh. Edited 9th March 2014. Additional information. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 18Sep 19, 2012 12:01 pm The sediment trap can also double as a first flush diverter if the capture chamber remains the same size as the wet system pipe and extended. It must also be located above the tank's water level. http://imageshack.us/a/img23/2737/sedimentfinal.jpg EDITED 9th March 2014: Linked diagram from another thread. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 19Sep 19, 2012 4:26 pm Thanks again SaveH2O,i'm sure all will be fine,will make sure of it following your advise,cheers. Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Rain water tanks & storm run off. 20Sep 22, 2012 1:21 pm Good news,installing 100mm pipe,out there yesterday when we had alittle storm come though,friend looked at amount of water coming out of downpipes & said,i'm going to put in 100mm pipe due to the amount of water i can see coming out. Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 That was always going to be a challenge and a test of patience. Full marks to your mate. Did you discuss the wet area near the trampoline? 16 18546 Hello I am developing 2 side by side units. Wish someone can help me on the following questions 1) Which stage should be the storm water pipe installed during the new… 0 8290 If you need to be able to access these then you may need to dig them out and cut them so you can add a socket and a riser to the required height. We normally add a… 1 7155 |