Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation Re: Home automation 24Aug 22, 2012 10:56 pm Danois Loads of info and opinion, so allow me to respond PHL Danois Anyway, things I want to be controlled by/integrated into the system: Under-floor heating (i.e. valves for the hydronic heating and in-floor thermostats) Alarm (zoned) External roller shutters for the high set windows to the south External roller shutters for the sliding doors to the north Should be easy if it uses a normal switch to control it; my fire shutters use a 3 way switch. Yes, I could make do with analogue systems, but as I won't be there 7 months a year (I expect to be there five months in total every year - in a three month period and a 2 month period - at least in the beginning. Perhaps more time as the years go by), I don't want it to be manual, as the backbone of the system will already be in place. Most everything I posted can be done with manual switches, but I prefer things to be automatic, viewable and controllable from the other side of the globe. And that not only means the alarm, but the in-floor heating (i.e. it takes quite a lot of time to heat concrete). Further, with something like that in place, and me wanting to use evacuated tubes mostly, I need to be able to control those things too. Ah, I didn't come across very well... I meant that with most shutter motors, the controls are very simple, so should be an easy matter to connect up a relay to do what the three way switch does, and hence automate it. At present as we are actually in a fire zone (BAL-FZ as it happens), we cannot (or more accurately were not allowed to) have anything that may potentially fail. In case of fire, the original specification called for the shutters to close by themselves under gravity due to loss of power. Everything had to go through the bushfire consultant (the local council no longer certifies such things). Danois PHL Danois If I buy a piece of land in a bushfire prone area: External sprinklers on the facade Pointless, as the first thing they do is cut power to your area; we wanted to do this (as we have rainwater tanks), but was told to not bother, unless we had either a separate water pump or generator for the electric pumps. Also in case of fire, the fire fighters usually take all the water, so you will have no pressure if you are depending on mains water. I expect to have a couple of solar charged batteries to drive pumps. Not only because of fire, but because I want to continue to have water even if there is a power outage. Also, it's not that I expect them to keep the house safe, but wetting the facade and roof even before power is cut, is surely better than not. Again, especially since chances are that I'll be on the other side of the globe when things hits the fan. That is our intention, hence two high capacity pumps, and storage for 14,000L of water, or which 7000L is hidden under the house, with a 30mm steel clad concrete over the top, and two double brick walls with 2m gaps on each side to protect the pump and the tank. Only problem is to get sufficient flow to our fire sprinklers, the pumps are at least 1kW each, which means the startup surge will be higher. Could not justify the cost of the extra work, and the necessary maintenance of the batteries, to have off-line power. The bushfire consultant also discouraged the use of any active protective measure, but like you, if we can, we'd wet the area around the house before the fire-front comes. Danois Once again, I not only want to view few things, I want to view - and control - a lot of things. Yes, I get it, I can get a facsimile of what I want without KNX, but I see no point in not doing it properly and build an actual system based on KNX. It's so much easier to work with a system that has an actual backbone where various items already are enabled to speak the language the rest of them are speaking, rather than band-aiding various products together. Remember, the house a completely new build, so I can plan accordingly. Besides that, it will be built to passivhaus standards (or better, in some areas), so I don't see the point of not installling an intelligent back bone. As for the iPad: After more than two decades of being a Mac user, I moved on four years ago. If anything, I'll use an Android tablet. Have to say I'm not familiar with KNX, as I was looking at Z-Wave. My concern was the single point of failure; does KNX has the ability to fall over to a backup server? There was nothing I could see in Z-Wave the allows for that. Having used both the iPad and the Nexus 7, have to say I still prefer the way iOS works as compared to Jelly Bean. When it was new, I handed the iPad over to my wife, and she got it. With the Nexus, she kept asking me how to do things, although she has got the hang of it now. Some Android apps are also needs polish. Also with remote desktop, I can control everything, albeit not with an elegant single interface. And FWIW, although I use both OS X and Windows (XP, Vista and 7), I mainly use Windows 7 as most of my programs run on a Windows environment, and to be frank, Thinkpads are better notebooks build-wise (IMO) than MBPs, although battery life under OS X seems to be better. Re: Home automation 25Aug 22, 2012 11:25 pm Thanks, PHL PHL Ah, I didn't come across very well... I meant that with most shutter motors, the controls are very simple, so should be an easy matter to connect up a relay to do what the three way switch does, and hence automate it. Ah, okay. That makes sense. Language barrier, maybe? Quote: At present as we are actually in a fire zone (BAL-FZ as it happens), we cannot (or more accurately were not allowed to) have anything that may potentially fail. In case of fire, the original specification called for the shutters to close by themselves under gravity due to loss of power. Everything had to go through the bushfire consultant (the local council no longer certifies such things). I was thinking I'd have roller thingies at the top* windows at the back (on the south side), and have gravity shutters on the front (with contraweights, so it doesn't take much to lift them). In profile, the internals of the house will be a box 6 metre high, 470 wide, and have eaves (with sides) protruding 230 from the facade (towards the north), if that makes sense. Think of a "b", where the long stroke is the internal side backing up to the patio, and the top of the curve is the top of the eave. My plan is to have the shutters slide up into the front of the facade over the eaves, if that paints an understandable picture? Quote: That is our intention, hence two high capacity pumps, and storage for 14,000L of water, or which 7000L is hidden under the house, with a 30mm steel clad concrete over the top, and two double brick walls with 2m gaps on each side to protect the pump and the tank. Only problem is to get sufficient flow to our fire sprinklers, the pumps are at least 1kW each, which means the startup surge will be higher. Could not justify the cost of the extra work, and the necessary maintenance of the batteries, to have off-line power. The bushfire consultant also discouraged the use of any active protective measure, but like you, if we can, we'd wet the area around the house before the fire-front comes. Although not optimal, I'll at least try to incorporate pumps with battery backed power. WIth my luck, a fire will start just after I have left and put my bags down in Denmark, lol. Quote: Have to say I'm not familiar with KNX, as I was looking at Z-Wave. My concern was the single point of failure; does KNX has the ability to fall over to a backup server? There was nothing I could see in Z-Wave the allows for that. Yup, KNX can do that. And I can even choose from a variety of manufacturers. KNX is an open standard, and although not big in Australia, it's huge here in Europe. It's much cheaper and easier to upgrade when new technology comes along than propretary systems. Quote: Having used both the iPad and the Nexus 7, have to say I still prefer the way iOS works as compared to Jelly Bean. When it was new, I handed the iPad over to my wife, and she got it. With the Nexus, she kept asking me how to do things, although she has got the hang of it now. Some Android apps are also needs polish. Yes, I don't mind having to learn things. I mind having a product limited in functionality by the lowest common denominator and being tied in to a specific brand of hardware. Quote: Also with remote desktop, I can control everything, albeit not with an elegant single interface. True. I don't necessarily want or need phone/tablet controlled things, my laptop is so much better in so many ways, although not as portable. Quote: And FWIW, although I use both OS X and Windows (XP, Vista and 7), I mainly use Windows 7 as most of my programs run on a Windows environment, and to be frank, Thinkpads are better notebooks build-wise (IMO) than MBPs, although battery life under OS X seems to be better. LOL, I switched to Thinkpads myself and I haven't looked back since! I love these computers. It was a lot to learn with Vista and then Win7 after twenty years on the Mac platform, but I managed. I use Win7 throughout now. I wish I could use some sort of linux, but I need to use sharepoint from time to time, as well as audio and video editing suites and associated (working) firewire, so Windows it is. Anyway, enough of the computers, KNX is absolutely great. Yes, you need to programme it, but depending on what you do, it need not be ridiculously difficult. I can't say I look forward to programming and adjusting the stuff, but when it's done, I will have learned a lot, so it will be easier to implement newer things down the line. *Top windows at the back will be 100 cm tall, placed at the very top of the ceiling. This means the bottom of the windows will be 500cm over floor level. And from the outside, the top of those windows will be 85-100cm from the top edge of the roof (the roof will have a 4 percent drop, but that won't be visible from the outside). These windows at the back will be the only windows apart from the passivhaus sliding doors on the front under the eaves. Re: Home automation 26Aug 22, 2012 11:42 pm Come to think of it, I could build a concrete shed with all the electricals there. That seems like ideal passive protection if I end up in a place which is bushfire prone. Of course, I could build the entire house in concrete, but that would be a huge block of concrete from the outside, lol. Re: Home automation 27Aug 23, 2012 2:34 pm Will have to look into KNX; any good resource I should look at? I've actually always used Thinkpads, back to when they were IBMs. Only went to OS X on a whim, due to the better battery life, but too many limitations. But now usually travel (non-work) with just the iPad with 3G. Our shutters are too heavy to lift (5.7m and 3.6m wide), and too bulky to counterweight, hence motorisation. Good to keep heat in during winter, and hopefully heat out in summer (just finished, so no summer experience). Re: Home automation 28Aug 23, 2012 7:24 pm Mine could be made of concrete if I wished (I don't want concrete for that, though), due to the height of the facade they are pulled up into. The height of the facade weren't dictated by this, it just happens to be a neat solution that happened to be available. As for KNX, there's http://knx.org/ - click on the "KNX standards" to the left. As for specific products on that site: Although they have links to specific products, I suggest you click on the manufacturers' links, because it's not updated constantly. Re: Home automation 29Aug 25, 2012 11:20 am Hi Guys - I looked at the Control4 automation and have now got the quotes. Just under $7k to fully wire a 40 sq double storey house with cat6 including the storage rack and extras. The Control4 system seems to be so easy to use and modular as long as the house is wired. The dimmer swirtches from control4 are ugly but you can use other styles as long as there has been room made for the control4 puck at the rear of the light switch. Re: Home automation 30Sep 10, 2012 11:22 pm +1 for Control4 I have it installed in my 3bdr house and it is great, I went away from using the C4 switches due to the cost, look and wiring requirements. I went for cbus neo switches and relays/dimmers and there is a driver from Extra Vegetables for cbus integration. All in all I am very happy and I have installed it all myself along the way (with sparky for cbus install), I also use a SnapAV 4x4 HDMI matrix with a rack in the garage that distributes Plex (HTPC running on mac mini), Foxtel, C4 interface and xbox throughout the house. The matrix supports cat6 extenders so all is very neat and tidy. I also have the garage door, security cameras and door locks through C4 and am in the process of having a concord 4 alarm system installed that will connect directly into C4 for room presence and window/door activity. The only pitfall of C4 is that ALL work has to be done be a C4 dealer and it can get quite pricey, I have purposely stuck with version 1.8 as it is "floating" around and means I can play with it myself but you lose all of the cool new features. The tablet/mobile integration is great and the single zigbee remote for the whole house is great for ease of use with new users. If you have any questions shoot them over and I will see what I can do. BTW I am not a dealer and have no affiliation with C4 except that it is a good toy, just wish it was a little more open... Cheers, Dean Re: Home automation 31Sep 25, 2013 12:04 am bigclick_dean +1 for Control4 I have it installed in my 3bdr house and it is great, I went away from using the C4 switches due to the cost, look and wiring requirements. I went for cbus neo switches and relays/dimmers and there is a driver from Extra Vegetables for cbus integration. All in all I am very happy and I have installed it all myself along the way (with sparky for cbus install), I also use a SnapAV 4x4 HDMI matrix with a rack in the garage that distributes Plex (HTPC running on mac mini), Foxtel, C4 interface and xbox throughout the house. The matrix supports cat6 extenders so all is very neat and tidy. I also have the garage door, security cameras and door locks through C4 and am in the process of having a concord 4 alarm system installed that will connect directly into C4 for room presence and window/door activity. The only pitfall of C4 is that ALL work has to be done be a C4 dealer and it can get quite pricey, I have purposely stuck with version 1.8 as it is "floating" around and means I can play with it myself but you lose all of the cool new features. The tablet/mobile integration is great and the single zigbee remote for the whole house is great for ease of use with new users. If you have any questions shoot them over and I will see what I can do. BTW I am not a dealer and have no affiliation with C4 except that it is a good toy, just wish it was a little more open... Cheers, Dean Hi Dean. Great to know someone else is using Control4. I'm looking at that for my setup to share AV (foxtel, HTPC, Xbox and TV) across 4 TV zones and 7 Audio zones. I will be looking at CBUS too for lighting at a later stage. I will have security through C4 and thinking about motorised blinds as well. Did you find hooking into the Cbus easy enough? which bits have you installed yourself? I'm trying to save costs anywhere possible Cheers Cameron Built with WBN in WA Slab down 16 Aug 2013, Handover 16 April 2014, Moved in 2 June 2014 Our house build thread Re: Home automation 32Sep 25, 2013 12:08 am Kracka60 Hi Guys - I looked at the Control4 automation and have now got the quotes. Just under $7k to fully wire a 40 sq double storey house with cat6 including the storage rack and extras. The Control4 system seems to be so easy to use and modular as long as the house is wired. The dimmer swirtches from control4 are ugly but you can use other styles as long as there has been room made for the control4 puck at the rear of the light switch. Hi Kracka60. Was the $7k for any of the equipment or was that extra? I've looked at some price lists I've found online and the matrix switches alone are quite expensive. I've also noticed the prices in Aus are twice the price of the US. I can see this adding up to be quite a pricey exercise. Built with WBN in WA Slab down 16 Aug 2013, Handover 16 April 2014, Moved in 2 June 2014 Our house build thread Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1. optional, you can but normally just use the earth from the main switch board 2. should be enough but the distance determines voltage drop - sparky should work it… 1 28975 We already paid for somfy motors for the blinds. The quote above was purely for “pre-wiring” so the blinds company can install the motors and blinds. That’s why we… 5 16903 go upvc window frames ensure insulation under colorbond. not just sarking, lighter color roof also not sure if you have seen this viewtopic.php?t=5823 last couple of pages… 4 111109 |