Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design 1 Dec 04, 2011 7:29 pm I am getting contradicitng advice from different landscape supplies places. I need the best quality turf underlay (for Sir Walter) because the area it's going to is terrible, it's basically shale So, I was considering so-called "organic top dressing" instead of "turf underlay". Looks like a standard turf underlay is 20% soil and 80% sand, or anything up to 50% / 50%. Can I use top dressing instead of turf underlay?? What's the difference and would the top dressing be any finer in structure (ie. giving an easier spread and more level lawn)? One place laughs and says that top dressing can only be used on top, while the other place says it's very suitable as TU as well BTW, when I ask them, they just say that "organic top dressing" is the same as "turf underlay" with the addition of some "manure" or mushroom compost. Would mushroom compost (or added "manure") be OK for baby turf roots, or would it damage them?? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 2Dec 05, 2011 9:19 am Ignore what the landscaping suppliers are telling you and read the 2 turf threads here viewtopic.php?f=19&t=21938 viewtopic.php?f=19&t=43570 If anyone asks why you want the ingredients just tell them it is what you have been advise to get. From reading all of the soil amendment and turf stuff on here there is one big lesson I have learned: It does not matter what you plan to plant in/on/around your garden. Soil is soil and needs to be prepared in basically the same way for any type of planting. There may be a few added steps for specific things but soil health is number 1. Not knowing a lot about shale, a PM to Fu Manchu may get a response in how to attack it. Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 3Dec 05, 2011 11:58 am Thanks Chris ... I did read these threads in the past, but can't recall seeing a specific advice that would answer my question Fu? Anyone? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 4Dec 06, 2011 11:12 am Get organic soil or compost or a mix but make sure it's organic if you can. Don't get mushroom compost - it burns the plants if it's too strong - my neighbours can only now grow things 2 years later after making that mistake. Can you dig into the shale at all? If so then get the soil delivered and get a rotary hoe and go over the whole area with it to try to mix the soil into the shale - yes I know it's rock but the more you break it up the better the roots will be able to grow. You don't want to make layers of shale and then soil you want to combine it all if you can. 'A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world.' Louis Pasteur Vegie garden: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27637&start=0 My Backyard Adventure Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 5Dec 06, 2011 8:49 pm Thanks heaps Lisanne ... I almost decided on the one with mushroom compost! Yep, I tried to score the shale, it's OK but the area is just too big! Lucky there is a layer of orange-y clay on top of most of it One good thing in this digging stuff is that I learned first hand all the different types of clay ... from dark red through to orange and all the way down to grey and almost white clay and eventually clay/shale and then shale and rocks With the soil, I just need something really fine and easily workable, stuff that spreads beautifully and does not have big blobs (have bad experience with some delivered stuff ). I guess the best is to go there and have a look (if only I had the time!!). My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 6Dec 07, 2011 9:14 am Are you able to get a dingo or similar into the yard Lex? You'll be 1000 times better off if you can dig out the areas you want to plant and mix through the existing and new soil to get the right mix of soils, nutrients and composition for drainage. A dingo with ripping tines might allow you to tear up the shale into workable size then a rotory tiller will mix everything together, Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 7Dec 07, 2011 6:39 pm Cheers Chris ... As I spent yet another day civilising my clay , I was thinking of this. Unfortunately, any machinery could easily create more trouble than good - we have quite a few VERY shallow pipes and services in one section (actually, I'm surprised that I haven't hit any yet!!!). Have also established that it is mostly the nature strip that is full of shale - the area closer to the house gets better and darker as you are getting closer to the house. I have dug out / scorched whatever I managed to see. Once we put a top layer of soil on, I guess only the really bad pockets would be suffering, the rest should eventually settle into the clay (I assume!!!). BTW, even after all this rain, this area is completely and utterly dry , only the area close and next to the house is quite / very wet . So I'm guessing some water retention additive would not go astray, I am thinking Seamungus - but only in this dry area. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 8Dec 07, 2011 7:19 pm So there is clay and then shale? 'A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world.' Louis Pasteur Vegie garden: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27637&start=0 My Backyard Adventure Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 9Dec 07, 2011 8:36 pm Yep, both mixed up, and the mix is heavily "shale-d" on the nature strip (meaning that if I look a bit closer (or scratch the surface), I hit shale and then I start digging it out ... and out ... and out ... forever ... and the diameter expands rapidly ...). One large spot (maybe 1 m2) was pure rock/shale, which we broke up with a mattock. And of course, the "clay" portion of the mix in this whole area is the worst clay, the light coloured ones. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 10Dec 09, 2011 10:43 am OK, need help please ... Would it help if I sprinkle a bit of Blood & Bone over the clay/shale area (together with gypsum) and then put turf underlay soil on top of that?? I am worried if Blood & Bone would burn the baby roots if I apply it on top of turf underlay soil?? What I want to achieve is to improve the soil & help break the clay UNDER the turf underlay. Does that make sense?? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 11Dec 10, 2011 6:50 pm Powerfeed will break down clay quicker than gypsum. Any soil you introduce into the garden needs to be dug through the existing soil so that you do NOT create layers - you want it all blended 'A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world.' Louis Pasteur Vegie garden: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27637&start=0 My Backyard Adventure Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 12Dec 11, 2011 7:45 am Crow bar, smash up shale, mix soil/compost with shale. Sorted. Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 13Dec 11, 2011 10:38 am If you layer the soil you buy then that will be the extent of root growth. 100mm deep is woefully shallow. What will occur is drying in summer, greater water needs, dramatically higher need for fertiliser (better to use none) constantly fluctuating condition of the lawn. Deep roots will mean everything just works with little cost or care to get perfection. Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 14Dec 11, 2011 10:42 am I'd personally steer clear of mushroom compost. Fungal problems will often occur down the track resulting from the excess nitrogen. Lots of zeolite needs to be used Lex. Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 15Dec 11, 2011 10:42 am Liquid composts are what will break clays. Humates are lovely things Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 17Dec 13, 2011 12:11 pm waste of money for what you are setting out to achieve. Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 18Dec 13, 2011 8:27 pm Thanks, Fu. As long as it doesn't do damage, it's not that huge an area. I think I need to put something "organic", and got this fixated idea that it would be easy to sprinkle B&B ! Maybe DL for turf is better ... I can't really find zeolite. Why is zeolite so important in our case? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 19Dec 15, 2011 10:45 am It's good that you brought up this topic, before reading here I had no idea about turf underlay. I had a quick read here: http://www.loveyourlawn.com.au/lawn-car ... and-laying (linked from Sir Walter site), but it has no specific mentioning about underlay nor required thickness. How much underlay are you planning to lay in terms of thickness? Re: Confused about Turf Underlay vs. Top Dressing 20Dec 15, 2011 6:31 pm I went to a local nursery to learn about underlay, the gardener sounds very knowledgeable and gave some good (subjective) advices. Use top soil as underlay, at least 3cm thick, put some starter as you lay the turf, after at least 2 months, put top dressing on top. Hi l plan to install a self adhesive vinyl plank floor. l first need to attach masonite boards underlay to by plywood subfloor of my house. What size nails and how many… 0 8378 Jimbo73 I would use heaps of adhesive on each sheet and screw rather than nail. use as many as you like cheers Simeon 1 4074 If this is a custom build then I would expect the builder to set out the door frame closer to the wall to avoid the gap between architrave and the wall and or specify… 9 8324 |