Browse Forums General Discussion Re: verandah not as planned.photos!what to do? update new ph 33Nov 16, 2011 2:21 am From what Ive read of your post Flatlined, and I have no wish to get personal, but you know little of what you are talking about and I would guess you dont have a roof plumbing background as I do. Bullnose verandas are built in Mary's design now and were, donkey's years ago. For your information, the iron is slightly heavier gauge rolling-iron (same as used for round corrugated water tanks) that will not 'straighten out' as you claim. Kids jumping up and down on any roof show a distinct lack of parental control, respect for other's property and deserve punishment. Perhaps you can explain the difference in design principles of thousands of flat roof verandas and carports (with greater spans than 1.8m) with the iron covering only attached at either end -- house fascia and gutter truss/C section? I look forward to your update Mary Arfur Re: verandah not as planned.photos!what to do? update new ph 34Nov 18, 2011 9:17 pm Uncle Arfur From what Ive read of your post Flatlined, and I have no wish to get personal, but you know little of what you are talking about and I would guess you dont have a roof plumbing background as I do. Bullnose verandas are built in Mary's design now and were, donkey's years ago. For your information, the iron is slightly heavier gauge rolling-iron (same as used for round corrugated water tanks) that will not 'straighten out' as you claim. Kids jumping up and down on any roof show a distinct lack of parental control, respect for other's property and deserve punishment. Perhaps you can explain the difference in design principles of thousands of flat roof verandas and carports (with greater spans than 1.8m) with the iron covering only attached at either end -- house fascia and gutter truss/C section? I look forward to your update Mary Arfur you guessed it correctly, I don't have a roof plumbing background. I have sheeted a couple roofs here and there over the years but I'd be kidding myself if I thought that qualifies me as a roof plumber. I'm actually a carpenter by trade so the framing, or more so the lack of framing is what sparked my curiosity. I didn't think people would build them in such a flimsy way these days especially when its 12m wide with open ends. If it had hip returns on each end it would help with bracing the structure but without them it relies solely on the roof sheets for bracing and that just wont do it. I'm still curious to know if any solid blocking was installed behind the fascia to use for a solid fixing/connection point. If it's relying on the fascia alone they may as well knock the thing down now to save further damage and/or possible injury. If it does meet all requirements with wind pressures taken into account and comes with a structural guarantee from a reputable company then I guess there's nothing to worry about. I would still have my concerns and personally I wouldn't accept it. I do tend to over-engineer things but I sleep well every night knowing that everything I build is built to last and won't blow away lol. Asking me to explain the design principles of every other type of verandah is ridiculous. With the various roof cover products available today the structural design will vary accordingly. I assume these roofs you speak of with the much greater end spans are not of this same corrugated roofing but something else like decking which is capable of the longer spans? Success is the result of good judgment, good judgment is the result of experience, and experience is often the result of bad judgment! Re: verandah not as planned.photos!what to do? update new ph 35Nov 18, 2011 9:38 pm Quote: If it had hip returns on each end it would help with bracing the structure but without them it relies solely on the roof sheets for bracing and that just wont do it. Oh come now Flatlined, I think you have gone bracing mad. By the way, take another look at Mary's it has 'hockey sticks' (your description) at each end. Do you think this structure is subject to howling gales, when the greatest danger would be wind-lift Quote: If it's relying on the fascia alone they may as well knock the thing down now to save further damage and/or possible injury. Oh really? What utter rubbish and based on your opinion alone? Give me a break! I very much doubt if you are a qualified carpenter, with statements like this. Quote: and comes with a structural guarantee from a reputable company Oh really? When thousands of these were built, I suggest before you were born, the iron was only secured by springhead nails. Now with timber Tek screws your argument is not even worth considering. The reason I mentioned decking verandas with larger spans, the fixing method is the same, at either end alone, that you have conveniently ignored. I refuse to debate an issue with someone who readily admits to NO experience and bases statements on an 'over-engineered' opinion. Arfur Re: verandah not as planned.photos!what to do? update new ph 36Nov 19, 2011 7:11 pm Uncle Arfur Oh come now Flatlined, I think you have gone bracing mad. By the way, take another look at Mary's it has 'hockey sticks' (your description) at each end. Do you think this structure is subject to howling gales, when the greatest danger would be wind-lift Bracing mad? I don't think its an overkill to suggest at least one form of solid bracing somewhere within the structure. I wouldn't know what winds it will be subjected to because I don't even know where it is but regardless of that, it's not my job to determine those things, all I was saying is I hoped that aspect was taken into consideration. Also Arfur I did know it has a rafter at each end and I even referred to them in an earlier post so I don't need to take another look. Are you suggesting those rafters have only been added for visual effect to give off the impression the rest of the verandah is framed in the same manor or do they actually serve another purpose? Quote: Oh really? What utter rubbish and based on your opinion alone? Give me a break! I very much doubt if you are a qualified carpenter, with statements like this. Can you explain to me how metal fascia could be considered a solid fixing point? The metal fascia itself isn't even solidly fixed to the house, as you would know it just clips on to brackets. Would you rely on a 12m verandah being attached to a house without the use of any bolts to connect the 2 structures? I don't know if that has happened here, I was simply suggesting they check it out. Quote: Oh really? When thousands of these were built, I suggest before you were born, the iron was only secured by springhead nails. Now with timber Tek screws your argument is not even worth considering. The reason I mentioned decking verandas with larger spans, the fixing method is the same, at either end alone, that you have conveniently ignored. I refuse to debate an issue with someone who readily admits to NO experience and bases statements on an 'over-engineered' opinion. Yes really. Why wouldn't you expect a structural guarantee? Just because thousands have been built that way previously doesn't mean a guarantee isn't warranted! Are you serious? Those spring head nails did their job quite well and the main reason for that was the hardwood timber they were nailed into. Softwoods don't hold onto the nails as tight as hardwoods, I didn't ignore your decking comments, I replied asking for clarification of the roofing material you were referring to. Corrugated iron and decking are 2 different products with different specifications so to compare them is not really relevant. My questions still remain. What's stopping the sheets from slightly losing their curved shape over time? Obviously that couldn't happen at each end because the timber rafters ensure no movement will occur there but what about where there is no rafters? Is the sheet capable of holding the fascia beam straight and keep the posts plumb for many years to come? Will the bullnose curve hold its exact shape over the next 20+ years? If the roofing manufacture is happy that all requirements have been met and can guarantee their product, I'd be satisfied. I've gone on about it enough already and you seem to be set in your ways and not willing to accept anything different. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and only time will tell. Success is the result of good judgment, good judgment is the result of experience, and experience is often the result of bad judgment! Re: verandah not as planned.photos!what to do? update new ph 37Nov 20, 2011 9:34 am hi guys firstly please play nice! secondly, an update! I sent the photos on to the company, and spoke to them, just said to look at the pics before giving us a final price, also said I wasnt asking for anyone to come back and fix anything.[I didnt mention it but, the builders put a hole through a water pipe last time, and also left a dent in the doorway when they took the pole out, so I really didnt want them back]. I rang a couple of days later to see if we had an invoice yet, which was waiting on the final price for verandah, and they did say someone had come back to try and tidy the roofing up.[the builder would have been swearing about me im certain]. So Im not sure what theyve done but it does look better.Its also been painted, and looks better because of that too. And we got the final invoice and uncle arfur you were pretty spot on with your prediction, at being @10% reduction, as weve been given a credit of $500 off of the verandah!! Re: verandah not as planned.photos!what to do? update new ph 38Nov 21, 2011 2:36 pm Quote: And we got the final invoice and uncle arfur you were pretty spot on with your prediction, at being @10% reduction, as weve been given a credit of $500 off of the verandah!! Naturally the choice is yours Mary, but I think the small discount offered is inadequate, to put it mildly. I would be at least doubling that insipid amount, because of the problems you had in not being kept informed, the damage they caused, the abundance and irregular spacing of posts (some in front of windows) and from memory one of your posts will be below ground level, and still no mention of the missing hips (returns) at each end. Good Luck Arfur Re: verandah not as planned.photos!what to do? update new ph 39Jan 25, 2012 9:39 pm Wow Mary23, After stumbling upon this thread, I was compelled to join the forum and add 2 cents… What an awful situation you have gotten in, What they have delivered is clearly not good enough IMO, I would definitely be getting them to re-do it, as per the plan that you signed off on, Flat ends on a verandah just look plain cheap, as they are much cheaper and easier to do, And a post at your front door - WTF seriously??? no where near good enough, You are being completely stitched here, don't except $500, get it done properly, I really feel for your situation, hope you end up happy with it in the end, Sometimes it is hard to know just how many little imperfections you should put up with, but that is just outrageous. regards dragit Hi, I'll be starting on my verandah repair soon - replace ledger, rafters, roofing iron, flashing etc. (fascia board already done). My question is about the timber ledger… 0 4253 1 3469 I work with owner, he/she is my man on the ground and I instruct them when to visit the site and take photos and I have other tools in the bag. 4 16357 |