I think I regret paving

coffeegal · Jun 23, 2011 4:31 pm

I had some paving done a few months ago and I'm over it already. We have spent the past few months sweeping in sand after sand after sand. Everytime it rains it vanishes. Every time it rains there is sand all over the top of the pavers. We ended up buying PaveSet from Bunnings. It's getting there but there is sand everywhere all the time. The Paveset certainly doesn't "set". I just swept yesterday after the rain and now it's all there again. I'm sick of sand underfoot. I'm sick of sweeping. I'm sick of gaps. No one told me I would be sweeping in sand for the rest of my life. I am reading DIY guides about how you have to sweep, compact, sweep, compact etc. until the gaps are filled. The ground was all prepared properly but the landscaper didn't use a compacting plate after they were laid, just swept in sand once. He compacted the pavers using a mallet. Is this why we are forever battling gaps of sand? What is the norm with the sanding process when using landscapers? The pavers are filthy (algae) and need a good scrub but if I start scrubbing I'm going to be back to square one with the sand.

Just a vent really more than anything. I think I made a mistake with choosing to pave. I had no idea that filling gaps would be such an issue.

bashworth · Jun 23, 2011 4:47 pm

Just laying the pavers on sand without compacting it seems a bit poor.

I prefer to lay paving on a sand with 5% cement added this has always worked well for me.

Planned LScape · Jun 24, 2011 7:44 am

On sand we usually run the whacker plate over the pavers with some old carpet tied to the bottom to stop cracking and scratching, which beds in the pavers. Before so the area is covered in sand, whacked, then excess sand swept in and whatever left cleaned up. If it hasnt been compacted properly, either the base, pavers or sand, the fine sand used for filling the gaps will take forever to fall in and fill the voids

Lex · Jun 24, 2011 8:23 am

coffeegal, so you don't have concrete somewhere under all that sand? Is the paving just installed on the ground (over the sand base)?

coffeegal · Jun 24, 2011 10:10 am

Thats right, no concrete, just crushed rock, bed of sand then pavers. With something like this u quiz ppl before they get the job how they do certain things but I would never think to ask about somethink so simple as filling gaps with sand, doesnt sound like rocket science. When I saw they just swept it I asked if they compacted and he said some do but it will damage the pavers so u just sweep and I,d need to do a top up in a few months. Talk about underatatement lol.

coffeegal · Jun 24, 2011 11:36 am

Is it too late for us to add a bit of concrete to some sand now. I really think the Paveset has helpled but not like we expected. It still washes away but it has helped build up. What about if we use regular sand and mix in some concrete (5%?) and sweep it over when the pavers are super dry and then wet it? I guess I would be worried that it would run/wash away and we'd have concrete set on top of the pavers? If so what sort/brand of concrete should we use? quick set or something? I really know nothing about concrete varieties other than I'll get to Bunnings and look at the options and feel like this

Lex · Jun 25, 2011 8:11 am

cg, I'm not an expert in this, but I think you'd need to use cement only, not concrete (concrete is a mix and cement is only one of the ingredients in that mix). However, as to how possible it is to do this now, after it's already been done, I'm not sure. Because all your gaps between the pavers are already filled with sand (unless most of it went out already), it may be necessary to take even more of the sand out and then do it all over again, but dry mix some 2-5% of cement into the sand before you sweep it in. OR, maybe it's OK to just sprinkle cement over the top??? I don't know, maybe someone else would know ... One thing I read about somewhere is that you should be careful with not leaving any cement on top of the pavers, and especially not wetting it while it's on pavers

... it may set and remain there I think, and I'm not sure if there is any problem in some leaching (can cement leach???) ... etc, etc, there are a few things to think of (I think) ... And then, you may want to protect the pavers against staining (seal them) ...
Or, you may just take out as much as you can and then replace it all with Paveset or similar ... I read that Paveset definitely shouldn't be left sitting on top of the pavers either ... Maybe you can call the landscaper and ask him to do it all for you ... has he ever mentioned Paveset to you as an option??

coffeegal · Jun 25, 2011 11:02 pm

Hi Lex, thanks for the info. I gave it all a good clean yesterday with a bleach mix and all the algae has gone and they are looking like new. I'm not feeling so regretful today

I am reluctant to put anymore Paveset on them, I can already see some damage. Even though you make sure there is no excess what happens when it rains is it washes everywhere and sits on top of the pavers. You really cant control it.

After giving them a good clean I think for now I'll go and buy some super fine sand and forget the Paveset and start adding more sand. There is no way I'm taking out what's there

birdirt · Jun 26, 2011 10:50 am

The process of using polymeric sand is to brush it in , remove all traces from the tops of the pavers, then thoroughly wet the sand using a very fine mist (so as not to disturb it) in order to set the sand. The installation process is not complete until it has been wet and set.

If you have not wet polymeric sand at the end of the job, then it can blow out before it is set, or when it next rains it may splash the sand out of the gaps, and it will set on top of the pavers and require subsequent cleaning.

See this guide:
http://www.adbrimasonry.com.au/lib/pdf/ ... mf1343.pdf

Planned LScape · Jun 26, 2011 12:16 pm

Cement dust mixed with sand can stain a lot of pavers, which makes it harder to clean and changes the appearance. It also can make the sand go hard like grout, which will eventually crack with them being laid on sand. Paveset or PaveLok would be the best bet, as it goes hard but still allows movement with some flexible properties.

evo550 · Jun 26, 2011 6:13 pm

cofeegal, You haven't mentioned what size pavers you have had laid, and the gap size between the pavers. I'm going to hazard a guess and say they are larger format (400 or 600mm ) with quite large gaps (10mm). It's unusual to hear of the problem you mentioned on brick size pavers with 2/3mm gaps.

Planned LScape · Jun 26, 2011 8:17 pm

Good point- laying flexible paving (ie on sand) isnt supposed to be laid with large gaps. Best kept to a minimum to minimise sand dislodgement and movement. Most pavers laid on a sand base are butt-jointed, which means laid tightly together.

coffeegal · Jun 29, 2011 2:45 pm

Quote:

If you have not wet polymeric sand at the end of the job, then it can blow out before it is set, or when it next rains it may splash the sand out of the gaps, and it will set on top of the pavers and require subsequent cleaning.

We definitely did. We are sure to clean the pavers free of paveset before wetting them. I think I've discovered what happens is due to the weather at the moment, it hasn't had time to set and so along comes a downpour and hence why it's being washed back out and onto the pavers. I asked the guy at the paving place and he suggested this and that it's probably an idea to wait until warmer weather.

The pavers are brick size, the gaps are small, there aren't large gaps between pavers but I think given the style of pavers they have a rounded edge at the top therefore this creates a large gap of say 1cm at the top of the paver where sand sits as it's being swept in. I think this is a problem too. Once you wet it, it stays there but because it's not 'set" due to weather or the like (aparently takes a few days for paveset to harden) along comes rain and washes that top larger gap onto the surface of the pavers.

After having cleaned it, most of it has washed out of that top section where the rounded edges are and is looking fairly well settled in the lower part of the paver which I think it what is meant to be. I dont think that top gap of the paver is meant to have sand. I think I'll just leave it for now and tackle again later in the year.

Thanks for thoughts.