Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Porter Davis homes 1966May 31, 2011 10:09 am My building thread : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36059 Paid initial deposit 24/7/10 Tender appointment 20/8/2010 Flooring and tile appointment 25/9/10 Colour and Electrical appointment 13/9/10 December site start delayed Site start (YAY!) 17/1/11 Slab pour 1/2/2011 Re: Porter Davis homes 1968May 31, 2011 10:15 am My building thread : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36059 Paid initial deposit 24/7/10 Tender appointment 20/8/2010 Flooring and tile appointment 25/9/10 Colour and Electrical appointment 13/9/10 December site start delayed Site start (YAY!) 17/1/11 Slab pour 1/2/2011 Re: Porter Davis homes 1970May 31, 2011 11:30 am Porter Davis Homes Questions? Call 1800PORTER Mon - Fri 9am-8pm Sat - Sun 10am-4pm info@porterdavis.com.au http://blog.porterdavis.com.au/ http://www.porterdavishomes.com.au Re: Porter Davis homes 1973May 31, 2011 12:11 pm I would have thought retail price v trade price for one. PD build a few houses, have 'volume contracts' with all the suppliers. Ie: What Austral charge me joe random off the street, 97c a brick, I am sure the PD price is a lot better then that. Same would apply for flooring, tiles, paint, everything... if it doesnt, then the business model is flawed and there is no cost saving for a project builder (and no profit margin for them either) So it comes back to the classic argument. Standard Brick: Retail Price 97c Trade Price 55c Cat6 Brick: Retail Price $1.09 Trade Price (lets say) 67c They made 42c on the cat 1 brick already (keep that in mind) now if they charge me the $1.09 they make the same price. Now, unless they have structured there deals with the suppliers differently, (possible) then I fail to see why there is a need for a double markup. Once on the cat1 product and then twice on the upgrade. National Tiles are another example, there are posts here where people upgraded the tiles, it retailed for $32sqm, they were charged $30sqm to upgrade, but received $0 back for the cat1's (do you really think they can get the cat1's at $2sqm?.. see where I am heading here? It costs PD nothing to upgrade, they can still take there overall margin. But it seems, that it is accepted business practice (in the housing industry) to markup upgrades at a higher rate. The margin is still there for the builder. Why does a upgrade mean a higher margin all of a sudden? I sell software for a living, for a large software provider, the markup is flat regardless of product. If a customer wants a special version, the markup is still the same. I am challenged by the fact that it appears different in the building industry. We use a volume builder to leverage the cost benefits they can negotiate by using the volume card, I dont expect the cost to be higher then the retail price for the same product. If it is, then there value proposition is non-existent, apart from being able to organise some tradies, building insurance and having a plan I like. Re: Porter Davis homes 1974May 31, 2011 12:26 pm humble I would have thought retail price v trade price for one. PD build a few houses, have 'volume contracts' with all the suppliers. They may (and probably do) receive volume contracts with some of their suppliers, but more likely than not they're not passed on, their choice. As was said previously, they are running a business, and will trade as such. What they do is well within their rights as a business owner, whether people choose to pay their prices or not is totally up to them. If you are willing to be an owner builder (and the bank will loan you the money ) go right ahead, pick your tradesmen, be onsite to check their work every day, know the trades well enough to be able to pick stuff ups, chase your supplies and suppliers....etc All this costs time....and time is money Thats why we paid a builder My building thread : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36059 Paid initial deposit 24/7/10 Tender appointment 20/8/2010 Flooring and tile appointment 25/9/10 Colour and Electrical appointment 13/9/10 December site start delayed Site start (YAY!) 17/1/11 Slab pour 1/2/2011 Re: Porter Davis homes 1975May 31, 2011 12:36 pm So it appears, what would be a standard markup on a cat1 item being 50% its acceptable for a builder to change that markup to 65% on a cat6 change? Price change I accept, markup I dont. Its double dipping. Thats acceptable? Its like walking into holden and saying I want that commodore, in white its $25k in black its $30k, there is very little logic to that. Re: Porter Davis homes 1976May 31, 2011 12:39 pm Hi Humble, If I may jump in here. At the end of the day you have two choices. To build through a volume builder or to go it alone. If you decide on the former, then as frustrating as it is, you need to accept their pricing policy. All volume builders operate in a very similar way. Volume Builders want to build homes (i) as quickly as possible, (ii) as cheaply as possible so as to make the best return and (iii) as simply as possible. If your particular build affects any one of these points, then get ready to pay a premium. At the end of the day they are operating a business and although it has probably frustrated to some degree every single person who has signed a contract this is unfortunately how it is. As others have already posted, try not to focus on individual costs as you will get very annoyed very quickly. If you want to add to this frustration, may I suggest you read the section in your HIA contract about costs incurred as a result of PCV's. Its very clear that builders (whoever you choose) make a lot of money from customers who change their mind post-contract signing!! How do you avoid this? Don't make any changes… Obvious I know. Instead try to focus on a rough overall figure for the build. There is enough info on here to help you cost up the majority of your home. Good Luck… TIMING OF BUILD 25Feb - Site Start 25Mar - Base Stage Complete 31Mar - Frame Completed 11Apr - Roof Tiles 20Apr - Brickwork Started Re: Porter Davis homes 1977May 31, 2011 12:46 pm humble So it appears, what would be a standard markup on a cat1 item being 50% its acceptable for a builder to change that markup to 65% on a cat6 change? Price change I accept, markup I dont. Its double dipping. Thats acceptable? Its like walking into holden and saying I want that commodore, in white its $25k in black its $30k, there is very little logic to that. I agree with your point. I was screaming for about 2 months on brick prices. In the end you get the builder to do the structual work which can't be done post handover, pay the price for the bricks you like then do the other stuff post hand over. Example PD charge $104 per downlight, I get get it installed for $50. PD will build you a house at a good price. Do the rest post handover or pay the $$ if you wanted it all completed at once. Re: Porter Davis homes 1978May 31, 2011 12:53 pm At the end of the day, i would expect everything to be priced Cost * Margin = Customer Price If that basic math is processed every time then I have no problem, but what it appears everyone is saying is that its acceptable for it to be Cost * Variable Margin Dependent on Cat Type = Customer Price Bizarre Re: Porter Davis homes 1979May 31, 2011 12:55 pm humble At the end of the day, i would expect everything to be priced Cost * Margin = Customer Price If that basic math is processed every time then I have no problem, but what it appears everyone is saying is that its acceptable for it to be Cost * Variable Margin Dependent on Cat Type = Customer Price Bizarre what we are trying to say is that the final price is still cheap. Re: Porter Davis homes 1980May 31, 2011 1:03 pm tstr1a Example PD charge $104 per downlight, I get get it installed for $50. PD will build you a house at a good price. Do the rest post handover or pay the $$ if you wanted it all completed at once. This is great advice. I'm doing the same. Only works if you're building single-storey thou Another item which is a lot cheaper post-handover is Rendering. PD change a high premium for this especially if you choose more than one colour..... Oh.... and the same can be said for additional internal colours (ie for feature walls). Much cheaper to buy the necessary paint from Bunnings and do it afterwards..... TIMING OF BUILD 25Feb - Site Start 25Mar - Base Stage Complete 31Mar - Frame Completed 11Apr - Roof Tiles 20Apr - Brickwork Started Three options 1 Ask the liquidator 2 Find another PD customer and ask the source of their report 3 Pay for new report 3 12269 Ask for references and speak to them. If they are defensive or try to avoid the request, walk. 1 74682 I would never build with Fowler homes. I built with them in 2021 and till date maintenance issues are pending. 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