Do we need to strengthen the floor/floor joists to make provision for balustrade? Or does it depend on the type of balustrade we would be getting?
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Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 2Mar 10, 2011 12:09 am Also, does this have to be done before plastering or can it be done After without any issues? Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 3Mar 10, 2011 12:21 am What sort of flooring is it you are attaching to? It looks like prefab concrete panels sat on joists. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 4Mar 10, 2011 8:42 am Thanks for your reply chippy. It is hebel powerFloor. Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 5Mar 11, 2011 10:57 pm I'd contact CSR technical division to get the definitive answer. I'd think that Hilti HGN & HRD fixings would be ok. Or bolt right through the floor if you can get access to the underside. I'd think that chemical anchors would probably work. I've never worked with Hebel, over here in WA it's all brick and concrete. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 6Mar 12, 2011 8:16 pm Thanks so much for that chippy Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 7Mar 14, 2011 12:08 pm Received a reply from csr "Balustrades must be attached and secured to the lower storey framing (joists) Hebel is not a suitable substrate to rely upon when securing handrails or balustrades." Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 8Mar 14, 2011 12:12 pm Staircase people are extremely difficult to get a hold of and very unprofessional Have contacted one glass balustrade guy and he said they use metal plates under hebel but even then the balustrade will move wen applied pressure to it :SSS Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 9Mar 14, 2011 3:42 pm Makes me glad we use suspended concrete slabs over here in the west. As mentioned before we dont use Hebel products over in WA. There have been attempts at using aerated concrete products however these have not proved popular with consumers. The fixing methods I mentioned above (hilti plug and chemical anchor) definately work in aerated concrete however when fixed close to the edge of a panel I could imagine that the possibility of it breaking away would be large. It sounds like you will need to bolt clear through the floor panel and out the other side. The issue with aerated concrete is that with continual movement it slowly turns to powder and the hole becomes enlargened leading to more movement. In your situation it would never fail if bolted right through the floor and joist however even a little bit of movement on a ballustrade is very un-nerving. Ballustrading also has a lot of purchase on it due to its leverage. I'd say your only option is to get your ballustrading or at least the brackets for it installed before you sheet your lower ceilings. This way you can bolt through your joist. If it was mine I'd prefer to be able to retighten the fixings from above if there ever is any movement. If you could use a Hebel approved glue and attach a piece of timber along the top of the powerfloor panel in line where you are running your ballustrading and then bolt through that as well then that would certainly help with the movement, as the bottom of the fixing is then held in place by your joist and the top of the fixing is held in place by the timber (or you could use steel) and the powerfloor panel is just sandwiched in between. Then it is only taking compressive load and the lateral movement is taken by the joist and the timber plate. May even be easier to finish your upstairs floor covering this way without having to worry about fitting around the pre-installed ballustrade. All the best. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 10Mar 15, 2011 11:43 am Thanks again chippy!!! Much appreciated Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 11Mar 23, 2011 9:48 am Some good news finally! I've been able to get the carpenter/staircase and balustrade maker to get on site. He seems to think that 2 layers of 10mm MDF attached to the curve/floor by liquid nails and counter sink screws will be sufficient. This just sounds too easy to be true? Is MDF really THAT strong? This staircase maker is a reputable guy and I do trust him, but I am just thinking this is too easy to be true? What do you think chippy? Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 12Mar 23, 2011 10:16 am Hi Blue. Without seeing a plan of your ballustrading it is difficult to say. Every time the ballustrade turns 90 degrees or attaches to a wall it helps to brace the top of it, so not sure what sort of set up you have.. I probably wouldn't be happy if there were long runs of ballustrading that were fixed in the way you mention without being held by a wall or return. As I said before, there is a lot of leverage at the top of a ballustrade. The fixing method mentioned will probably hold in normal usage but I'd preffer to know it will hold through some abnormal usage. I guess your ballustrade guy knows what he is doing and has looked at the job as a whole, but 20mm of MDF liquid nailed to aerated concrete doesn't sound like the safest fixing method. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 13Mar 23, 2011 10:59 am Thanks for that chippy!!! chippy Every time the ballustrade turns 90 degrees or attaches to a wall it helps to brace the top of it, so not sure what sort of set up you have.. That's exactly what he said! Luckily we have quite a few 90 degree turns. chippy but 20mm of MDF liquid nailed to aerated concrete doesn't sound like the safest fixing method. He said to liquid nail MDF to both hebel and steel frame floor joists. Also, he said he would fix the posts to MDF, not hebel. Is MDF strong enough to hold this??? Thanks again!!! Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 14Mar 23, 2011 3:10 pm Hi Blue. The hebel sits on top of your floor joists. Is he saying that he will glue 10mm mdf on top of the hebel and 10mm mdf to the underside of the joist? I cant quite work out what you meant in that last post. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 15Mar 23, 2011 8:33 pm Sorry about that. What he said was he would put two layers of mdf, one on top of the other on the side. As in vertically. Instead of plasterboard. Hope this makes more sense Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 16Mar 23, 2011 8:38 pm Sorry about that. What he said was he would put two layers of mdf, one on top of the other on the side. As in vertically. Instead of plasterboard. Hope this makes more sense Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 17Mar 26, 2011 8:18 am Our plasterer seems to think that mdf will be impossible to bend around the curve part of the floor joist and that it wouldn't be strong enough to have balustrading fixed to it Re: Balustrade reinforcing - before or after plasterboard? 18Mar 26, 2011 8:18 am Our plasterer seems to think that mdf will be impossible to bend around the curve part of the floor joist and that it wouldn't be strong enough to have balustrading fixed to it Thank you alexp79 and gommeqld for your advice, that's very helpful, thanks 3 8538 What we have done in a few theatres ( including my own) is run 2 layers of 13mm gyprock, but sounds insulation especially for the bass is really tricky as a lot of that… 4 2860 Plasterboard Gyprock is very popular as a reveal liner these days. You need to provide a way of supporting it, we use a modified timber reveal or bracket. You will be… 1 5110 |