Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 3Oct 01, 2010 9:43 am http://take2-customdesigndownslope.blogspot.com 07-10-09 omg they have cut the block 14-05-10 we finally have the keys Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 4Oct 01, 2010 12:21 pm View our blog at: http://room4acubby.blogspot.com/ Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 9Oct 14, 2010 10:06 pm viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43238 building with kerdels in gabbadah, wa block purchased april 2010 signed with builder oct 2010 papers signed jan 2011 prestart done 17/01/2011 Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 10Oct 15, 2010 7:10 am I have such a love/hate relationship with our builder! Loved the floor plans, love the displays, the sales people were amazing... unfortunately the further into the building process we got... the quality of service we received continually dropped! Our only contact in the office was useless... well that was after being assigned 3 or 4 before her. Basic queries were ignored, or only half answers given. Our SS kept telling us when we ran into him that he wasn't recieving our messages through the office. It's a long story, I wont rattle on about every detail... except to say that they knew my husband was a plumber, so you'd think the one thing they'd get right was the plumbing... NOPE. Aaron's still on weekends fixing things. None of our storm water pipes were glued at any bends or joins Pipes have been crushed Joins/bends in the downpipes not sealed We've had enough of disrespectful lazy tradesmen in our home after handover, which is why we're fixing things ourselves. I think our builder really needs to have some sort of standards for the contractors they hire to complete works. Our painter smoked inside the home throughout the whole job, apparently after at least 3 official warnings from our builder. After regular reminders and me chasing confirmation, the WRONG appliances were still installed, creating a whole new list of issues... We were so excited to get the keys... then to find the house wasn't cleaned... we were given a lecture about how we shouldn't have expected it to be clean, as they just do a 'builder's clean'. That is completely misleading, as you expect to move into a clean house... to the same standard the displays are... Rant over... Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 11Oct 15, 2010 7:15 am Got carried away with my rant that I forgot to actually address the title of the thread... Works by owner and what the builder thought We were given permission to do parts of our own plumbing, as long as we didn't touch the contractors plumbing. After handover we've connected ours to theirs. No wonder we were warned not to touch the contractor's plumbing... as we'd have picked up MANY mistakes, and rough-lazy work Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 12Oct 15, 2010 11:12 am Hi gabbybuild10, I hope my thread hasn't scared you off the possibility of doing work yourself, i think it's more about leaving certain items to the builder - siteworks being the main one. With regards to levelling off your block, i think i understand what's required for your block - in terms of the cost of doing it yourself i think it would only be marginal and there is the risk that the builder may not be happy with this outcome. Assuming they do the work that you are opting yourself to do, they will put margin on that - how much i wouldn't know (might be worth asking?). From that, the earthworker who will be doing the work themselves will be remaining on site so there'd be no additional charge for bringing in equipment etc as they'll just keep working until it's finished. As the other option, if you were to do that work yourself with your own contractor, from there the builder/engineer may not be happy with the work done so will need to provide additional work to make sure it's up to scratch, which they will then charge you for. Because two different works are engaged on the job, in their price both will charge for transport etc of equipment. Therefore that little bit of saving you could have gained may only be marginal. The point i'm trying to make is that in my experience, when clients have done the work themselves quite often items will be missed. We're told by the owner the site is ready, we rock up and find that there's items missing so because we've now gone to site, we engage the trades and unfortunately have to charge the client for the additional work. In a lot of cases the saving the client had is reduced considerably, and they've also had to go through the headaches of arranging things for themselves when they could have been doing something else with their time. It really comes down to the opportunity cost of the situation. So to reduce your costs, i wouldn't be focusing on the earthworks component of the house, but maybe items in the home etc if you're trying to save money. In terms of building on a flatter part - it might seem more expensive now to build up there, but think of how you'll be if you build on the flat part, and every day look out the window to where you could have built and think - wouldn't have cost us that much extra in the grand scheme of things. Also think of it from a resale point of view in that you have spent the money on a piece of land, now you want to maximise the return out of it as much as possible - even though you'll be there for a number of years. I hope this helps!! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Jay gabbybuild10 hi jayw was put onto this link by someone else, very interesting, have been tossing up whether to do my own siteworks or not. but then reading this site has put me off a bit, which i must say i had reservations about from the start. ie do i do it and try and save some $$ or just let the builder worry about it. what i want to know is there anything i could do to possibly reduce my costs....i'll briefly explain i have been quoted just under $40k for site works,(20k just for the sand which i have priced and seems about right) slight slope, but lots limestone, so no cut and fill possible. have managed to clear it the majority of it (dense coastal scrub). wot i want to know is if it is worth me getting it levelled to my highest point (which is a rock), and then let the builders build up the 30cm that they said they would have to go up from the highest point?? does that make sense?? or is it best to leave up to builders. it's roughly a 1-2m gradual drop over 40m. on a 5 acre block, we could build on a flatter part of the block, but this spot has the best views. thanks Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 13Oct 15, 2010 4:10 pm Hi Jay, I think that it is great that you, as a builder, are on this forum, and as we are building with one of the companies in your group I have been reading with interest your thoughts and helpful tips to other people on this thread. I get the feeling you like what you do, and heaven knows the homes you guys build are spectacular. jayw What I have struggled with and at times found disappointing, is the lack of faith or trust people have in builders. No doubt there's the few out there who have spoiled it for the rest of us, and done the wrong thing, but at the same time there's plenty of builders out there offering some amazing homes and will bend over backwards to help people get into their new home. I think a big part of this comes down to the attitude people carry when they walk into the display home, or sit down for their prestart. Yes there's no denying it, a builder will place margin on items and works carried out in a household, but it's no different to the margins you pay for buying a car, piece of clothing or even the tomato sauce in a shop. The difference as i see it is that a home is a signficant item with a high $$ value so it's obviously more noticeable and will be heavily scrutinised. However as a client of one of the companies in your group, what I have struggled with and at times found disappointing, is the ludicrous amounts charged by the builder above and beyond RRP. You are right, there is no denying that builders place a margin on items, and we went into this fully aware that we were paying for the convenience of having someone build our house. We are inexperienced and extremely time poor, so really have little option but to build our home through a builder (geographic location also means its a choice of two building companies - both JWH). What is insulting to us is the blatant "double dipping' if you will by the builder on items. Case in point our toilets. We wished to upgrade to a toilet that RRP at $700. The toilets included in the house RRP @ $400. Is it not logical then that we should just pay the difference between the two? This does not take into consideration the buying power of "one of WA's biggest building companies" which would surely get these items at well below RRP in the first place. What was actually quoted to us was 83% above RRP per toilet! How could we not come away feeling like we were being shafted? When we queried this and pointed it out how crazy it was, wewere eventually allowed to supply our own. But to add insult to injury, we are only receiving a credit back for 1/2 the cost of the standard toilets? I mean come on. This has totally soured our relationship with the building comapny. We have gone from feeling really positive about this house and being really impressed with how accomodating the builder has been with our myriad of changes, to being totally deflated (but not defeated as we arenow haggling over the vanity basins RRP of $280, quote to upgrade $762) and incredibly suspicous of all of the other costs. It may be disappointing to you to see that lack of faith or trust people have with builders, but how do you think we feel, when a reputably company, blatantly sqeezes you for money, and turns your dream into a constant struggle over money. Happy, Healthy Free Range Wessex Saddleback Pigs My doom and gloom paperwork nightmare viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32170 Construction viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43653 Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 14Oct 15, 2010 4:28 pm This seems to be a common complaint, Hugs to you "V" Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 15Oct 15, 2010 4:35 pm Thanks Jayw It was really good to get a builders pov I think the builder had mentioned that they pretty much add 10% on to stuff they do, like we need septics, and siteworks etc, as to us doing it ourselves. Septics we will trench digging ourselves as much as we can. probably not worth the stress of it all and will get the builder to do the site works, i would hate to have to double up on costs. don't really want to compromise on the view. we are looking at going really basic inside, really bare minimum, and upgrading stuff later when we can afford it. at the moment as long as i can afford my walls, electricity and plumbing i will be happy. i know as i go along there will be many i would like during the process, but am very aware of my budget. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43238 building with kerdels in gabbadah, wa block purchased april 2010 signed with builder oct 2010 papers signed jan 2011 prestart done 17/01/2011 Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 16Oct 15, 2010 4:39 pm Try a 26% markup from our builder! Happy, Healthy Free Range Wessex Saddleback Pigs My doom and gloom paperwork nightmare viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32170 Construction viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43653 Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 17Oct 15, 2010 4:49 pm As i understand it a Engineer has to sign of on the site works,so if we use the same earth moving company & eng as the builder it should be done to a standard. If the earthworks fellow has not done the job to the standard the eng would not sign off on it & wouldn't he have to fix it up as he was employed to do the site works. Sorry hope you follow in a hurry to get to school pick-up Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 18Oct 15, 2010 5:39 pm Hi Velouria, Thank you for your compliments regarding my passion for the industry - for what it's worth i've been raised around building companies so it's hard to not get excited about home building. I'm not sure if you've been on our site, but i'm a member of the family that owns the group so i definitely take comments to heart and part of me being on here is to try and break down the ?? that exist between building companies and clients. In terms of the mark up on the price, i can't fully comment as it's not in relation to the division i run so i'm not sure what their practice is. I definitely agree with you on the mark up, and i'm not quite sure why they do it like that. I think a builder or 'shop owner' has every right to charge a price for a change etc, as long as the cost can be justified. At the same time, that's sadly the world of business in that if you can charge it.... you will. By saying that, please don't think of me as someone who believes thats the way to conduct business. As long as you are talking to them, i think they'll hopefully come to the party on some of these items. We do have stuff like this come up from time to time with people wanting to use their own items, and in some cases they can actually get a better price for items from retailers (can be very frustrating and makes us as builders look stupid), from that i like to keep the conversation quite transparent so we can work toward an outcome - hence my push to talk to the builder or NHA in the office. I'd assume you're building in the south-west otherwise in the wheatbelt? If you need a hand with anything Velouria, feel free to send me an email (jay.walter@ruralbuilding.com.au) and i'll see what i can do. I'd rather discuss over email if names are concerned for the sake of their privacy. gabbybuild10 - i think you've got the right mindset. It's crazy that people get so carried away upgrading every single item on their house straight away, then get upset when the price comes back. It's like walking into the Holden dealership when the car is advertised for $30k, doing all the upgrades then complaining when it comes back at $60k. Best thing is to work out your priorities, as in what you can't live without now, or are more economical to do now, then later on do the things that can be done over time. you'll also find some of the nicest homes are one's where they have kept it simple, and the time and money has gone into finishing. We built a house not long ago where the client upgraded everything - this house was the 'ducks nuts' and looked brilliant. A few months after handover we saw the house and were quite disappointed at the finished result. The painting was done by owner but looked like a real rush job - no sanding and filling on the walls for a smooth finish, no washing the walls down for dust, not cutting in properly - it was a shame that what could have been a stunning home had been cut short by compromising on the details that make it look fantastic. I'm not saying you shouldn't do painting yourself, more so that it's soooooo important to take your time when building a home - from the very start to the very finish. If you plan to dig your own trenches etc, make sure you get from the builder what depth they require. A house we're building at the moment had the client do trenches by owner, they did them 300mm deep when we required 500mm and they were too narrow. The client had to rehire the digger to come back out again. Admittedly, it was our mistake not specifying the requirements clearly and we assisted with payment for the digger and i'm in the process now of making sure this is reflected in our documentation to avoid it happening again. Anyway, anymore questions - please feel free to email me, shoot us a PM or write up on here. Hopefully i'm restoring a bit of faith in builders and that we're not all bad guys!! Jay Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 19Oct 15, 2010 9:59 pm jayw Hi Velouria, Thank you for your compliments regarding my passion for the industry - for what it's worth i've been raised around building companies so it's hard to not get excited about home building. I'm not sure if you've been on our site, but i'm a member of the family that owns the group so i definitely take comments to heart and part of me being on here is to try and break down the ?? that exist between building companies and clients. In terms of the mark up on the price, i can't fully comment as it's not in relation to the division i run so i'm not sure what their practice is. I definitely agree with you on the mark up, and i'm not quite sure why they do it like that. I think a builder or 'shop owner' has every right to charge a price for a change etc, as long as the cost can be justified. At the same time, that's sadly the world of business in that if you can charge it.... you will. By saying that, please don't think of me as someone who believes thats the way to conduct business. As long as you are talking to them, i think they'll hopefully come to the party on some of these items. We do have stuff like this come up from time to time with people wanting to use their own items, and in some cases they can actually get a better price for items from retailers (can be very frustrating and makes us as builders look stupid), from that i like to keep the conversation quite transparent so we can work toward an outcome - hence my push to talk to the builder or NHA in the office. I'd assume you're building in the south-west otherwise in the wheatbelt? If you need a hand with anything Velouria, feel free to send me an email (jay.walter@ruralbuilding.com.au) and i'll see what i can do. I'd rather discuss over email if names are concerned for the sake of their privacy. Jay thanks for your reply and offer of assistance. We may drop you a line in the future and explain our tale of woe to you....but be warned...its almost 16months long! Could you explain to me why, when we are now supplying our own toilets, we are still being charged for 1/2 the cost of the standard ones? This is not a question of us 'wanting' to use our own stuff...we have been forced to by the inflated pricing we have been quoted. To travel 1hour each way into town, with two kids under 3 to collect these toilets and then have to store them until they are needed is exceedingly inconvenient. This whole saga has been quite stressful and has once again delayed us (but whats another week in the longest pre-contract papertrail ever!). I get the impression that you genuinely care about your clients and the reputation of your Company. By no means am I disparaging the JWH group - we chose CB for areason and that was quality and professionalism and we still believe that they will deliver us a fantastic house - but why does it have to be so hard. Why do we have to push all the time for them to meet their deadlines? Why do we have to be the ones to highlight errors/ommissions and obvious mistakes in pricing? Why is it that when we call into question their pricing, most often there is a price reduction (I know this is a good thing for us, but it does leave us feeling that if we hadn't brought it up we would have been over charged) Its their job but its our life (and at the moment it is pretty sucky ) edited due to tragic spelling errors Happy, Healthy Free Range Wessex Saddleback Pigs My doom and gloom paperwork nightmare viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32170 Construction viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43653 Re: Works by owner and what the builder thought 20Oct 17, 2010 11:27 am What we would also like to see is a transparent price list, So when you update etc you see the credit for the item & the cost of the new,all itemised Door updated/credit cost Standard door $500-00 Credit $500-00 Up-dated door $900-00 Extra amount payable by client $400-00 We have found that as you go through all the costing etc you really have no idea what you are being charged for or if you are recieving any credit back. Don't really understand how you can be charged any % of something you have changed or removed Builders are 100% entitled to make money (off course) same as anyone,they make money from the build itself,but i think they have to be more realistic on those extra prices Also every-one can not have everything, so when you have to choose say a bigger window/garage/bench,nicer tiles etc over hiring a painter (which in the east is included in house price) then you paint the house yourself & do the best you can,well thats the priority for you! Block bought 1st RBC X! 2nd Ventrua,Keeper! Pstart 18/7/11 Ethwks jan 2012 Slab Bricks- finished 7/6 Roof Trusses 15/6-cbond 21/7 viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41185 Fair Trading can issue orders to rectify and complete but once the matter goes to NCAT these orders are automatically vacated. You will have to terminate contract and sue… 21 29783 Hi All, I just wanted to close this topic out with an update. So we ended up agreeing to a number with the insurance company, and after an extensive amount of hand… 8 23524 |