Good old values and design

xanthrope · Sep 07, 2010 2:46 pm

I was sitting in my pergola last night thinking about how values and building concepts have changed over the decades and how we have gone from quiet contentment to the 'instant gratification' era. I have a few points jotted down here and I was wondering if any of you had anything to say about them.
(1) General design: We used to spend a lot of time in the family areas and the kitchen/dining areas. The whole focal point of the family was in those places. But this has changed over the years. We now have what is called 'private spaces' - yes, builders have caught on that and the proof is in the newer designs now, where we have parents retreat , childrens retreat. Topping the scale is his and her bathrooms and I read somewhere that one builder has designs with his and her master bedrooms. Actually, I wonder whether they will change the names soon (we have to ensure gender equality) to Master Bedroom and Mistress bedroom

. We even have fully fledged 'Media' rooms as if children and parents spending time away from each other wasnt enough

. So , to make up for it 'Hey lets spend some quality time together ! Lets all watch a family movie !

' There you go ! we are family once again. The movies have brought us together. I remember the days when I was growing up, as siblings, we boys wre 2 to a room. Mind you, this was not in order to save space - We had larger rooms and we grew very close together. Today kids have their own individuality and lets not forget, privacy

to consider and hey presto = more rooms , more walls in between. Builders dont make it any easier for us. They show us the bright side of these designs , and we the people willingly accept, not knowing the emotional effect it could have down the track. We have started considering homes as a materialistic balm to our everyday living rather than an emotional one. We feel the need to have more rooms and bigger entertainments areas today as compared to say even 20 years ago.
(2) Gizmos: yes, thingamagyggees or what other name you want to call them by - we cant get enough of it. if there is a newer 'more improved' feature that can be put in the market, the builder will find a way to put it there, for that increases their bottom line. But have we as a people stopped to consider how materialistic this whole process has become. Do we consider the impacts to various facets of our social and environmental ethos ?
I dont care to list any of them right away, but I do know that I will list thme as this discussion continues down the line.

So what are you waiting for, get in there and pen down your thoughts.

tjilpi · Sep 07, 2010 4:31 pm

Sadly true. I think the 'separating' of families within the house has also contributed to less communication and greater social problems, both within and outside families.
We still have only got tellies in the living area, none in bedrooms. No theatre room, 'private' areas or his / her bathrooms. In fact, our whole family shares one bathroom.
We are doing renovations and will hopefully end up with a second ensuite bathroom in the next few years. We will also keep a family room as well as a separate dining room, so that when friends are over to dinner, our kids (which are now teenagers) can peel off with friends kids and take their noise to their own space

Personally, I don't really get parent 'retreats'. I am yet to find any wall or door which keeps kids out. If we tried to sneak off to a parents retreat they would just follow. Mothers the world over will confirm, you can't even guarantee privacy in the toilet

xanthrope · Sep 07, 2010 5:51 pm

Haha , very well put tjilpi.
House re-design has really been in the interests of the builder than the consumer. lets face it - who out of the stakeholders has the incentive to make more money - why , the builder off course.
It's great marketing if the builder can convince you of adding more rooms in your house as it increases the builder's bottom line.
As a lot of you can testify, even until 10 years ago, we only had 1 television that the whole family would sit and watch. We could discuss news, sports ,events etcc... Today's families tnd to have a TV in junior's room (not including juniors nintendo DS and laptop with high speed internet).
Is it any wonder then, that families are living more separate lives ?

kek · Sep 07, 2010 6:49 pm

Different families all have different needs, so don't be so quick to criticise. The number of people in the house, their ages and relationship to each other, all vary from one family to the next. What suits one would be torture for another. I'm glad there are lots of options to suit different situations.

I grew up sharing a room with two sisters and HATED it. So I'm extremely happy to be able to (finally) give each of my kids a room of their own. I'm also glad we don't all have to squish onto the couch and watch what Mum and Dad choose on TV any more.

As for not spending time together as a family, kids these days tend to stay at home longer, and that can get a bit wearing, no matter how much you love them. Which is exactly why we built a whopping great house with several living areas. I fully expect one or more of my lot to move out, then move back in with a partner in tow while they save for a home of their own. And I don't fancy living in each other's pockets.

tjilpi

Personally, I don't really get parent 'retreats'. I am yet to find any wall or door which keeps kids out. If we tried to sneak off to a parents retreat they would just follow. Mothers the world over will confirm, you can't even guarantee privacy in the toilet

Simple solution. Put a lock on the door.

Works for us.

It all depends on how old your kids are. You're obviously not going to be hiding from babies and pre-schoolers. But try living in a house full of teenagers/twenty-somethings, and then see how much you need a parent's retreat.... It's my favourite room in the house.

Helyn · Sep 07, 2010 7:12 pm

Our house isnt large - its a reasonable size for us, has 2 bathrooms, and we have 2 TV's, I have no wish for a larger house with retreats, media rooms etc - but thats me - to each his* own, I say.

Or her own, in the interests of gender equality

take2 · Sep 07, 2010 8:28 pm

I love having separated living areas, and we use them all, the house we rented had all the living areas joined together and we were all so stressed and at each other all the time I love my family dearly but at times it is great when you can all have your own space. All I can say is thing have improved since we have moved.
Cheers Lou

Biff Costanza · Sep 07, 2010 8:55 pm

Helyn

Our house isnt large - its a reasonable size for us, has 2 bathrooms, and we have 2 TV's, I have no wish for a larger house with retreats, media rooms etc - but thats me - to each his* own, I say.

Or her own, in the interests of gender equality

+1

room4acubby · Sep 08, 2010 4:11 pm

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, but I think may be important is to look at the demographic of who is building houses. I am sure that a majority of the market are couples with no kids and little idea of what life will be with kids other than their sometimes blinkered view of what life was like with their parents.

Builders understand this and market appropriately, therefore big master bedrooms with parents retreats, media rooms, outside entertainment with barbies and bars etc. These all appeal to couples that probably don't know what it will be like to raise a family. They look at the house and think wow MY room will be big, MY ensuite will be so nice etc. They wouldn't be thinking of their kids etc. I know when we bought our current house we never considered these things. Now that we have two young boys and a bit more experience in entertaining, raising kids and fitting in careers we can see what is more important for us. We even made our master bed smaller so that the boys rooms could be bigger, we ensured that we had a rumpus room so that we could shut out the noise of the playing kids and this may eventually become a media room with a bar. We have a lounge room off the master bed room that could be a parents retreat, however we want more versatility etc. Each to their own but I think a lot of it has to do with what stages people are in their lives, how greedy they are or feel and how important they place different aspects of their life on different aspects of a house design.

kyton · Sep 09, 2010 10:37 am

We designed our home to suit our needs - both now and in the future.

I would not expect my children to share a room - I had to do it from the age of 6 until 16 and I hated every minute of it. We have 3 children and so built a 4 bedroom home.

We also built a toy room that will morph into the kid's rumpus room when they become teenagers - it is adjoining the open plan kitchen / dining / living - so I can see everything that goes on within it's 4 walls.

Yes we have a home theatre room as DH loves movies - and with 3 children under 5 the remote likelihood of us going to the pictures is very slim!! So this way we can watch movies at home when the children are in bed.

We were also extremely extravagant and had ensuites built in each bedroom - because we could afford to, had the available space and want our children to feel that they can stay at home for as long as they want to (DH stayed at home until he was 30, me until I was 26).

One thing our kids will not be having however is computers / tvs in their rooms - bedrooms are for rest and sleeping.

Huggy_B · Sep 09, 2010 10:57 am

kyton

One thing our kids will not be having however is computers / tvs in their rooms - bedrooms are for rest and sleeping.

No offense, but I cant see that one being a binding contract with the way technology is.

And per the OP, put simply, houses are a growing reflection of how lives today are lived. People dont want to spend $100 to go to the movies, so theatre rooms make a lot of sense. Plus with the ability to stream movies over the net, theatres and even video rental stores are becoming redundant - Blockbuster in America has gone belly up. And geographically, an alfresco is an ideal entertaining space for our climate and BBQ lifestyle. And the list goes on.....

Everything is market driven and fuelled by our "want to better than the Jones" society.

tjilpi · Sep 09, 2010 3:13 pm

There is some irony, is there not, in people spending many thousands of dollars on a dedicated theatre room to avoid $100- at the movies. Not doubting anyones choices, just find it interesting

Moogles · Sep 09, 2010 4:01 pm

tjilpi

There is some irony, is there not, in people spending many thousands of dollars on a dedicated theatre room to avoid $100- at the movies. Not doubting anyones choices, just find it interesting

Over time the room will pay for itself.... once the movie is finished thats it, your money is gone...
Also considered an asset to the home (in my opinion anyway)

Helyn · Sep 09, 2010 7:35 pm

Well, I guess it all depends on what you are going to get most value from - and not just monetary value.

Lots of things are ironic - Ive always thought it ironic when people say they dont have time for gardening but then they have a home theatre and have time to watch movies.

But then I like gardening and hardly ever watch a movie - either at the cinema or at home.

Again, just an interesting observation....

joles · Sep 09, 2010 8:25 pm

Huggy_B

kyton

One thing our kids will not be having however is computers / tvs in their rooms - bedrooms are for rest and sleeping.

No offense, but I cant see that one being a binding contract with the way technology is.

I'm the same as Kyton, Huggy_B. No TVs and no computers in bedrooms. My younger brother retreated from the family entirely once he had those things in his room. MY DS is 12 and he knows that's the way it is. We do have seperate TV areas though to accommodate him and his friends, but he has to interact.
And it is a binding contract.... if he doesn't like it, he can leave when he's got a job.

I'm reasonably leanient on most things, but not this.

Bigger houses are the sign of a few things, the shift in what types of families live in houses now. Extended, multi-generational families living together need different spaces than the traditional Mum+Dad+kids. The expense of heading out, people are more likely to entertain at home. The extra living spaces, both indoor and out, are a godsend. I'd rather spend $40 on a slab than $40 on a couple of pots and a plate of chips at the pub.

Also the safety factor, I'd rather drink at home than head into the city for a big weekend and get stabbed.

(I'm only half kidding....)

I'm sure there is an element of keeping up with the Jones', but I also think that a lot of people simply live different lives than a generation ago.

Deemaree · Sep 09, 2010 8:34 pm

Kyton & Joles-we have also had the policy of "no tv and/or computers in the bedroom" for all 3 of our children (now aged 26,24 & 16)-we also ensure that the mobile phone is charging next to ours in the office to ensure adequate sleep. There were times when they all have tried the "but everyone else has a TV/computer" in their room..to no avail.

WE are building a 4 bedroom home (one will be used as an office) with a study and our youngest child turns 18 next year. However we have 2 (nearly 3) grandsons who visit, family who stay regularly and friends who also crash after e few drinks-the space is utilised by our life.

We are currently living in a 16sq rental house-and we just do not have room for everyone!

RoadkillNZ · Sep 09, 2010 8:58 pm

We have a media room, and it is one of the most used rooms in the house between watching TV, movies, and playing games and part of the reason we got it was we wanted privacy while watching it, especially if the kids are meant to be doing something else.

Also by having the TV in a totally separate room it means there is no temptation to watch it while eating dinner etc, and when we are doing things in the other rooms, because the temptation is not there. Strangley enough we have a TV in the main bedroom that I have not watched in the 3 months we have been there, and the DW has only watched it once when I was on nightshift and she din't feel like getting out of bed.

When the kids were younger they were in the same bedroom, that did not work well because one is a early riser, the other a late to bed type, so they were always waking each other up at both ends of the day, so we built a separate room for them both and any guests (It is a sewing room in off times)

We also have a nice alfresco area so when we get the storms we can go out there and watch nature play out while drinking a few beers/wines and when we get it have a nice BBQ area for entertaining in summer, in winter there is the living areas which don't have the distraction of the TV because of the aforementioned media room.

Rizzo · Sep 09, 2010 9:34 pm

tjilpi

There is some irony, is there not, in people spending many thousands of dollars on a dedicated theatre room to avoid $100- at the movies. Not doubting anyones choices, just find it interesting

We never go to the movies. With 3 kids, it just costs too much, so for us, a decked out theatre room is our little treat. We quite often sit down with the kids on a Saturday night and watch a family movie. It will also double as a guest room, so that when guests stay (which we have a few of living where we do), they will have a room with a t.v, so if they get up they can watch it in the morning with a cuppa or when they go to bed, or whatever.

We have a pretty big open plan living room, and most houses do these days, which I think is a huge reason for other little closed off rooms. Most of our living is done in this one big area, but with 5 people in one house, it's nice to know we are going to have the space to adapt and grow as our children grow without being ontop of each other constantly.

I have an activity room off the loungeroom so that the kids toys and mess are in there and if guests come over I can shut the mess of with sliding doors if I want. It flows directly off the loungeroom and the doors will be open 90% of the time, so it's not separating them at all, but gives us a lot of options for that room over the years.

I know as a teenager living in a two bedroom unit with my mum, that I shut myself in my bedroom 95% of the time, and most of my friends did too. It's a teenage thing, and I don't see how that is any different to wanting to have other room that you can get some time out if you need it.

I would never shut myself off from my kids, especially while they are little, they are wherever I am, but my hubby, well, that's another story

ETA: thinking about it, most of the older style home I lived in growing up, the kitchen was separate from the dining and the lounge was seperate again, or the kitchen dining were separate from the lounge, so really, there was always a spot to get your own space, these days everything is open plan.

melbmeg · Sep 10, 2010 12:48 pm

I've been thinking about this a lot, after checking out display homes for the first time and being gobsmacked by the size of them.

I have a theory that people no longer build houses just to live in, but as an investment. Land is so expensive that no one wants to undercapitalise. People figure that they might as well build a big house because it doesn't really cost much more to build and will sell for more later.

I do think it's getting out of hand though. The idea of every bedroom having a bathroom and the kitchen having a second kitchen behind it (butler's pantry) is just nuts in my opinion. And what worries me is that once these things are out there they become standard, which is bad for housing affordability, bad for the environment and bad for the economy ultimately because our wealth is being tied up in non-productive assets. That said, I do think that if I were forced to live miles from anywhere I'd probably spend more time at home and want a starter castle myself by way of compensation.

zircon · Sep 10, 2010 1:11 pm

Housing styles have certainly changed. My Dad was one of seven kids in a 2 bedroom plus verandah sleepout house. My brother and I grew up in a 3 bedroom house. My two kids will be growing up in a 4 x 2.

We will have a media room simply because I don't want the TV in the living area and I want it as far away as possible from the bedrooms. My daughter is a light sleeper and in this current house she's always complaining about hearing the TV. If we turn it down any lower we'd have to sit with our ear against it just to hear!

joles · Sep 10, 2010 1:56 pm

melbmeg

I have a theory that people no longer build houses just to live in, but as an investment. Land is so expensive that no one wants to undercapitalise. People figure that they might as well build a big house because it doesn't really cost much more to build and will sell for more later.

+1. Definitely a factor.

melbmeg

I do think it's getting out of hand though. The idea of every bedroom having a bathroom and the kitchen having a second kitchen behind it (butler's pantry) is just nuts in my opinion.

Going back to my previous post, multigenerational families. If you have elderly parents, they may want their own bathroom. As Kyton said, the idea of kids living at home longer, living there with partners.... an ensuite is ideal. Kids and partners moving back wth their own kids while they save for a house. Multiple ensuites are a big help in those times. We have 3 generations living in my home.

As for the butler's pantry, it was an absolute must for us and the way we live. We have 3 dogs that are inside and cats. When my mum is baking the pantry becomes the cooling area (has an exhaust fan), we thaw things in the pantry sink away from where the animals can steal things. :n:

Pots soak in the pantry sink, rather than in the main kitchen freeing that sink for other uses. We also utilise the extra benchspace in there to leave appliances out that are frequently used but would otherwise be filling up the kitchen bench (toasted sandwich maker, milk shake maker). We'd be lost without the extra bench space and ability to close it off. It gives us the freedom to have the kitchen integrated into the family and meals area, but the option of hiding things away when need be.