Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering Re: Anyone demanded their tiler use ASA Conflex? 2Mar 11, 2010 11:00 pm [quote="EmoH"]"will not crack." quote] Can anything be that certain? I think most suppliers to the tile game would make similar products. Ardex or Mapei and others. I guess the flexible adhesives have benefits, but tiles are still meant to stay still! What experience do you have with the product you've mentioned? Ash. Re: Anyone demanded their tiler use ASA Conflex? 3Mar 11, 2010 11:18 pm No experience. I was recommended to get the tiler to use it as it is flexible. If there are thermal expansions or contractions, things will crack like cement render vs Acrylic render I guess. Santorini Grande Executive Re: Anyone demanded their tiler use ASA Conflex? 4Mar 12, 2010 11:25 am Yes definetly use a flexible adhesive which has some give in it. We use Atlas ADDFLEXTRA, basically the same as the ASA product. Yes they cost more than the fully cement based products but you get far better coverage. Tile are extremely hard - and that amkes them brittle. Any expansion/movemet they may occur under the tile will carry on throught the cement based adhesive and possilby crack the tile. Now the flexible adhesive cushions this effect - but only a small amount. If you have excessive movement nothing will help. But I alwasy recommend these types of adhesives to my clients. Also adhesives like Tilefix, Tileset etc are not guaranteed to adhere to vitrified material with minimum perosity. Cheers Re: Anyone demanded their tiler use ASA Conflex? 5Nov 11, 2010 11:27 am Conflex and Addflextra are actually very different. Conflex costs more because it has higher performance. If you want to easily compare different adhesives look at the AS4992 Classifications. All manufacturers are obliged to test their adhesives to AS4992. There are a lot of tests and to be given a code the adhesive must reach a minimum level in all tests. If they pass, cement based adhesives are given a "C" classification - C1 (normal) or C2 (improved). If they are flexible they get an "S" classification - S2 is more flexible than S1. There are also codes for Extended Open time - E (takes longer to skin) and non slump - T (Holds wall tiles without slipping) Conflex has a C2S1ET classification Addflextra is reported as only C1S1. So Conflex is far higher performing overall. It has a stronger bond, extended open time and non slump. In your case it would also perform better because if there was some uncontrolled movement it would be less likely to de-bond because it is stronger (C2). Many adhesives are based around coverage to make them cheaper per square metre laid. Conflex is based around performance and so is not designed to compete on coverage. If you are looking to compare Addflextra with an ASA product you should be looking at Excelflex (C1S1E). You can then compare trowel feel, open time ease of use, pot life and price to determine which one you would like to use. So if you would like a higher performing adhesive then you should insist on products such as Conflex. IMPORTANT NOTE ON FLEX: You cannot control thermal expansion just with a tile adhesive. Adhesive performance relies on how it is used and the overall nature of the tiling system. Although a flexible tile adhesive (such as ASA Conflex) can deal with some movement, you must remember to install appropriate expansion joints in the tile system. Tiles are rigid (and so is the grout) so any movement will be transferred. If you do not have appropriate isolation and expansion joints you any uncontrolled movement will be transferred to the tiles and grout. Make sure your tiler is aware of and follows the guidelines in AS3958 (tiling workmanship standard). If you have excessive movement then you should attend to that before you tile. Any substrate that has noticeable deflection is probably not suitable to tile Re: Anyone demanded their tiler use ASA Conflex? 6Nov 11, 2010 8:46 pm How are expansion joints in tiles installed?? When are they required? How can we make sure that the tiler is aware of and follows the guidelines in AS3958 (tiling workmanship standard) ? They are all "the best" in their own words and any extra questions are usually taken as an attack My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Anyone demanded their tiler use ASA Conflex? 7Nov 12, 2010 7:11 am There are a few ways expansion and isolation joints can be installed. A flexible material (such as silicone or polyurethane) can be used - or for perimeter isolation joints they can be left unfilled and covered by skirting. Any joint in the substrate should be carried through the tile system - other joint locations will depend on the configuration (and size) of the tiled area. If no one ever asks then there will be no incentive for the tiler to comply. Because there is no regulating body (until there is a failure) it is (alas) up to the market to bring up the bar. There are tilers out there who do great work and who comply. Surely they should be rewarded for their efforts. If it was my job and the tiler refused to comply with the minimum standards then I would have to seriously consider employing someone else. For some reason we don't mind shortcuts when it comes to tiling and waterproofing - but rectification can be costly, inconvenient and time consuming. Re: Anyone demanded their tiler use ASA Conflex? 8Nov 12, 2010 9:43 am Gary Schwarz There are a few ways expansion and isolation joints can be installed. A flexible material (such as silicone or polyurethane) can be used - or for perimeter isolation joints they can be left unfilled and covered by skirting. Any joint in the substrate should be carried through the tile system - other joint locations will depend on the configuration (and size) of the tiled area. Thanks, Gary. What are the rules for expansion joints for tiles? Eg. I know when intermediate exp. joints have to be placed into timber floors - is there a similar simple rule for tiling? Gary Schwarz For some reason we don't mind shortcuts when it comes to tiling and waterproofing - but rectification can be costly, inconvenient and time consuming. Quite the opposite here, actually, but maybe we are a minority. When it comes to waterproofing, the standards are lower than they should be (IMO) ... very cheap to do initially, very expensive and frequent problems later on if not done well. The problem is that an average Joe does not know what the trader (eg. tiler) will actually do vs. what they promised to do - we can't be standing over their heads with quick reference materials in our hands and numerous hints and tips, dos and don'ts etc. Also, we don't know what we don't know - we have to be masters in every single trade in order to weed out those who we think won't be good - but we can't do that because we don't even know what to ask, etc. I'd like to hear how other people "make" their traders to do the job properly! My experience is that they don't like you minding their business (= a well paid work on your property) and in fact some will in some way try to "get back" at you if you don't like or comply with their way of doing the business. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Regardless of wall hung toilet or floor pan toilet your feet will be right on drain, seems to me the waste should not be in that location given the design. 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