Secret Nailing T & G flooring

barkly · Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am

There is compressed air secret nail gun one can use to install T & G flooring. It's action is to hit the trigger with the hammer and the air inserts the nail, with the hammer hit causing the floorboard to be partially cramped as a result of the hit. Just wondering if this hammer hit is sufficient to cause the floorboard to be pulled up sufficiently or does it still require cramping to do the job properly. Comments from anyone who has had some experience in using this gun would be appreciated.

Thanks

barkly

guest · Sep 25, 2009 11:41 am

I guess this would depend on the hardness of the timber you are going to install.
I used the compresser type one for my blackbutt flooring. I still have to manually band with a hammer and the block to get the board to interlock then the final 1 or 2 mm was pushed in with the gun.

I know people that have installed Grey ironbark (very hard timber) and had to clamp each plank seperatley then use the gun and the timber was very hard and wouldnt close up properly.

barkly · Sep 25, 2009 2:44 pm

Thanks borg,

The flooring timber I shall be using will be Spotted Gum - certainly hard and stiff stuff. I expect it will therefore require some additional cramping over and above that offered by the nail gum process.

barkly

Dukekamaya · Sep 25, 2009 10:19 pm

You will only have issues if the boards are very bowed. The gun actually fires a staple. As said the gun will push the boards in approx. 2mm.
They are very easy to use.

Striking · Dec 28, 2009 2:25 pm

The gun is simply set up on a jig to fine nails at an angel through the tongue.

the boards still require cramping if you want a good finish.

chuth77 · Dec 29, 2009 12:10 pm

As someone who layed over 100m2 of tongue and groove overlay flooring, here's my thoughts...

I bought my overlay (12mm) flooring 9 months prior to installation, and had it acclimatizing to the house...

I bought a secret nailer from Ebay, with staples and still don't regret buying a cheap one... Hoping to sell it on soon!

For overlay flooring you must glue the boards, as well as nail...

Make sure all end cuts, if not end matched, are perfectly square... This is where I spend $1000 on a Bosch drop saw, and worth every penny!

Make sure you plan your installation... Take into account the doorways and how you'll finish them...

As for cramping of boards... For the most part you won't need to... The nailer fires the staple at the last moment... The nailer has a base plate which must be set hard against the board, and on the back end of the soft faced hammer is a hard edge at an angle that allows you to tap the nailer in, forcing the board further in before firing...

Yes, some board required "cramping", but a wide chisel into the underfloor was ample to bring it in... If you can't bring it within 0.5mm with a chisel, then the gun won't make it go anyfurther and you'll have a gap...

The most important thing is to get the groove seated over the previous tongue... It's gotta be nice a flat to achieve this...

If you do have some "*******" boards, then you can use them in places like under kitchen cupboards, fridges etc...

Constantly check the "distance-to-go" to make sure you are not creeping out of square at one end...

I spent the money and had mine professionally sanded and finished... Of the 4 quotes I got, they all asked which company laid them... They didn't believe I did myself... Many many comments from Real Estates and prospective purchases confirmed the time and effort I spend was worth it!

T&V · Dec 29, 2009 12:58 pm

Hi All, Chuth 77 has hit the "secret nail" on the head - storing the timber in the enviroment it will be used in for as long as practical b4 laying is very, very important. most people don't realise this, unfortunately even some pros don't do it!!! as an example of how this "acclimatisation" works, even in the laying of something as inert as u might think vinyl planks are, the better manufacturers recommend the planks be stored in the building they r to be used in for a min of 48hrs!!!
pleased u got such a good result Chuth, one of the hardest jobs i've done in previous 2 builds were secret nailed wood ceilings with hammer & nails & also added liquid nail as i went - result was well worth effort & well rewarded at selling time!!!
other big item Chuth raised was checking the measurements as u go.....if one end runs away when u get near a wall it sticks out like DB's - the quicker u correct the harder it is to see where it was corrected. i don't know how good sizing wood planking is these days, but in the past i would lay boards out and check widths cos some were thinner at one end, mark these with chalk & have them ready to do correcions if an end creeps out on u.
IMO good drop saw is essential to get ends snug - saves lots of time & frustration. also u will need drop saw for skirting & cupboard construction.
cheers tony

happydog · Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm

agree with the previous posters - I did my whole house with a cheap secret nail gun with very few problems. The chisel method will take care of any boards that are not perfectly straight and the gun makes short work of the rest of them. You do hit the gun fairly hard and the mallet is a large hard-rubber type so it provides plenty of force. I agree with the drop saw too - and they are always good to have down the track.\

Cheers and good luck.

Striking · Jan 05, 2010 8:41 pm

As others have said acclimatisation is very important and you need at least 3 months. on side in shade before you begin.

but take if from a chippy and get yourself a clamp, I would not install flooring with out it. you may not notice it now but i na few year time you will be glad you clamped

barkly · Mar 11, 2010 11:02 am

Thanks for all the previous posts.

Quote:

but take if from a chippy and get yourself a clamp, I would not install flooring with out it. you may not notice it now but in a few year time you will be glad you clamped

Is there a clamp or some alternative device that can be used over yellow tongue type particle board? (and yes - have used a clamp over joists previously but not over particle board)

Thanks

mickve · Mar 11, 2010 8:37 pm

In existing houses yes acclimatise timber in a new house dont waste your time even the department of forestry is now saying it is not neaded and i agree. We let timber sit there in a new house for a month when house is all closed up most of the time then the customer moves in and has the air cond on all day which will dry the timber out. Unless you have the timber in the house and run the air cond like you would when you live in there it is a waste even after you do this you will still get movement at different times of year as humidity changes.

Hammerhead · Mar 11, 2010 9:00 pm

Our 6" blackbutt was secret nailed & top nailed ( & glued), no cramping needed.

hunts01 · Mar 12, 2010 9:55 pm

I am up to 85 m2 out of 120 and used spotted gum and installed it using a secret nailer which as described from the others is easy to use.

I have used a fair bit of glue, for the sake of $8 a tube for extra strength well worth it. As for whether to get cramps or not, both carpenters i spoke to said you wont need them, well I can tell you after spending 6 days so far doing it if I didn't have the cramps I would have probably got them close but by taking the time to cramp them if you cant get a board in perfectly the result is heaps better, just takes more time. You can hire them from normal hire joints. I laid mine over yellow tongue and the cramps have to nails which you tap down and it grips into the particle flooring and then you just wind the boards in. In relation to starting your boards just make sure you run a chalk line off a wall and check it against your adjacent walls for square. You will never get a board that is exactly straight so pick the straightest one and use the chalk line to get that first row spot on, the rest should follow and by the time you get to the other side you should be laughing!!

You do get a sore back though!!

Lex · Mar 12, 2010 11:41 pm

mickve

In existing houses yes acclimatise timber in a new house dont waste your time even the department of forestry is now saying it is not neaded and i agree. We let timber sit there in a new house for a month when house is all closed up most of the time then the customer moves in and has the air cond on all day which will dry the timber out. Unless you have the timber in the house and run the air cond like you would when you live in there it is a waste even after you do this you will still get movement at different times of year as humidity changes.

Very interesting, I heard the same from a flooring expert guy. He added that it's actually worse in some cases, depending on a few factors.

barkly · Mar 13, 2010 12:26 pm

Hi Hunts01,

Thanks for your information - exactly what I was seeking. I have about 55m2 also of spotted gum to lay - was certainly going to hire the secret nail gun but was unaware if any cramping aids were available to work off the particle board floor. While many of the boards are straight and can be taken up relatively easily using a chisel as a lever, some other boards are not so straight and do require something that gives a better mechanical advantage. And will certainly be using the glue as well.

May I ask if you are in Vic/Melbourne?

Lex · Mar 13, 2010 1:21 pm

mickve

In existing houses yes acclimatise timber in a new house dont waste your time even the department of forestry is now saying it is not neaded and i agree. We let timber sit there in a new house for a month when house is all closed up most of the time then the customer moves in and has the air cond on all day which will dry the timber out. Unless you have the timber in the house and run the air cond like you would when you live in there it is a waste even after you do this you will still get movement at different times of year as humidity changes.

Does this mean that pre-finished full timber boards, or even floating floors would be more stable?
In other words, does this apply to raw boards only, including raw parquetry blocks?

hunts01 · Mar 13, 2010 8:56 pm

Yep in Melbourne,

In regards to using a chisel, it will bring some of the boards in but no all of them perfectly. Floor cramps cost 30 a week to hire and they get every board in 100% and are easy to use just a little time consuming, but if you want it done right it will take time, ore pay someone to do it!

cheers

Lex · May 20, 2010 3:28 pm

I was told that clamping is not done nor really required (T&G raw solid floors). It's all apparently "done" as 1 step by the nail gun :shock:

hunts01 · May 20, 2010 8:17 pm

I think for the majority of boards the gun will get them in, me not being a professional timber floor installer, thought $30 was the way to go to get those difficult boards in, and trust me on 4.2 metre lengths I was glad to have it, funny thing is the smaller boards up to 1200mm in length were the harder ones to do!!

Lex · May 20, 2010 8:46 pm

So, are you saying that you had to use a $30 clamping device only for some boards ? And why? Were those boards maybe a bit bent or twisted?