Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 7Feb 14, 2022 6:39 pm Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 9Apr 13, 2023 5:53 am klinec Hi constant, Did you end up using Hebel blocks? I am planning to use that too. klinec Just be careful before choosing a product that is not widely used in your local market In particular have a think ahead about who you are going to get to install it ie which trade and are they available, and are there a few of them if something goes wrong. From personal experience we have found that when transitioning to a less common product there are far fewer installers available and build times can be delayed if something goes wrong. We found this out the hard way with steel frames and the fact that there is a very limited amount of trades available who will touch them, and nearly every crew you can find seem to be the carpenters who failed at timber. I would rather have my finger nails pulled out with pliers then deal with steel frame manufacturers again. So back to the power blocks, reading the instructions I was scratching my head as to which trade could install this. I came to the conclusion that it would have to be a bricklayer with training in this system as it's similar but different. But bricklayers who lay actual bricks are so hard to find in Sydney at the moment let alone ones who have powerblock training. The other issue you will find, is that reading the brochure they recommend against chasing for services which means you need to create internal cavities. Most likely furring channels will be the solution but that will add at least $20,000 to the average build and then the next question is finding a gyprocker who will agree to attached furring channels directly to hebel. I could go on, but I have to do an early morning Bunnings run. I think you will find that sticking with double brick will be a more simpler solution. Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 10Apr 13, 2023 10:00 am As Simeon mentioned, the job to be done by qualified blocklayers, but keep in mind Hebel blocks are usually laid using AAC adhesive/glue, not traditional mortar and because of this the blocks are much easier to lay and oftentimes and can be done as DYI. Chasing should be okay, they do in Europe and then plaster on top. Talking about wet renderers in Sydney, the labour is not cheap and there are only few available in Sydney, as everyone is doing gyprock. Usually, they use machined gypsum plaster inside and sand cement render coupled with some textured decorative coat outside and is usually meshed. Gypsum plaster with then require 2-3 coats of skimming and sanding with special fibre glass wallpapers in between. All this is very labour intensive process and will cost you arm and leg in Sydney. But if everything done right, then finishes will be much better than you get with the gyprock. Glueing gyprock on top of Hebel is not a recommended practice, so if you install one, you would need furring channels, but you won't be able to traditionally screw them in as with brick and would have rather to glue. Then the issues will come with roofing, lintels and between floors support. Hebel block houses usually run concrete belts along the perimeter of the house on both levels to support joists and wall plates for the roofing, they also in some cases can act as lintels. For those you usually use U-block, which is filled with reinforced concrete, so add at least line pump and concreters, then you would need to make sure you install wall plate dowels at certain interval into the belt when it still poured, later you would waterproof over and attach wall plate to these dowels. Lots of fuss. Your builder has to know all this small things and nuances and your engineer has to know/understand them too. Having said all that, I think building Hebel in WA could be a good alternative to double brick as it comes with lighter foundation comparing to double brick. You have a lot of qualified blocklayers and renders over there too. Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 11Apr 14, 2023 12:19 am Thank you Simon and Alexp79, Your comments are very helpful and practical. The advice is in line with what I hear from others - to be wary of product that is not common in Australia. I come from Europe and Hebel (Ytong) is the most common material to build the houses from. Timber frame houses are extremely rare. And many people build their own houses (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia) as DIY/owner builders as Ytong is very easy material to work with, has great accustic, thermal, termite and airtight properties and is affordable. There are thousand of houses built every year from Ytong for decades, and it is proven method to build long lasting solid house. So naturally I assumed that it will be same with Hebel in Australia. People often talk about Hebel - however the caveat is they talk about Hebel panels attached to timber frame. But house build from Hebel blocks is a rarity here. We have a DA approval for our Hebel block house, we have a structural designer who is onboard with Hebel blocks, we have PassiveHouse consultant who is happy with insulation properties of Hebel blocks. So far everything looked good. However, now we are looking for certifier and installers and it's not easy to find either who is happy to work with Hebel blocks. I am starting to doubt our decision to use Hebel blocks. But I think we have come too far and I still believe in it, so I think we should persevere. I agree the bricklayers are probably the closest trade that should be able to install Hebel blocks. Or if I am lucky I might be able to find some migrants from Europe who have an experience with Ytong? 🤞 Our water services are colocated around one or two walls, so adding cavity for them shouldn't be too expensive. As for electricity - narrow vertical chasing should be fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPs0Qbr ... Nenadpiton More details about chasing are in this guide: https://hebel.com.au/wp-content/uploads ... LIT043.pdf I am not decided on internal wall finish yet - wet renderers vs plasterboard. I am happy with either solution, so I guess I'll use one that will be cheaper. Why is glueing gyprock on top of Hebel is not a recommended practice? Alex, do you have some links that provide more details about why gluing gyprock on top of Hebel is not a recommended practice? I am aware of concrete belts, structural drawings have them. Yes that will require extra concrete :( I feel like I may have bitten off more than I can chew, but if thousands of people in Europe can do it, then it shouldn't be that hard, right? 🤷♂️ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 12Apr 14, 2023 1:14 am re glueing gyprock to Hebel: I have read concerns about mould appearing behind gyprock, mainly due to different levels of vapour permeability between 2 materials, but it will be worse if your external finish is not vapour permeable. I think you should try and use 'breathing' finishes from the outside if you want to prevent issues with the mould between gyprock and AAC. Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 13Apr 14, 2023 4:45 am klinec Thank you Simon and Alexp79, Your comments are very helpful and practical. The advice is in line with what I hear from others - to be wary of product that is not common in Australia. I come from Europe and Hebel (Ytong) is the most common material to build the houses from. Timber frame houses are extremely rare. And many people build their own houses (Poland, Czechia, Slovakia) as DIY/owner builders as Ytong is very easy material to work with, has great accustic, thermal, termite and airtight properties and is affordable. There are thousand of houses built every year from Ytong for decades, and it is proven method to build long lasting solid house. So naturally I assumed that it will be same with Hebel in Australia. People often talk about Hebel - however the caveat is they talk about Hebel panels attached to timber frame. But house build from Hebel blocks is a rarity here. We have a DA approval for our Hebel block house, we have a structural designer who is onboard with Hebel blocks, we have PassiveHouse consultant who is happy with insulation properties of Hebel blocks. So far everything looked good. However, now we are looking for certifier and installers and it's not easy to find either who is happy to work with Hebel blocks. I am starting to doubt our decision to use Hebel blocks. But I think we have come too far and I still believe in it, so I think we should persevere. I agree the bricklayers are probably the closest trade that should be able to install Hebel blocks. Or if I am lucky I might be able to find some migrants from Europe who have an experience with Ytong? 🤞 Our water services are colocated around one or two walls, so adding cavity for them shouldn't be too expensive. As for electricity - narrow vertical chasing should be fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPs0Qbr ... Nenadpiton More details about chasing are in this guide: https://hebel.com.au/wp-content/uploads ... LIT043.pdf I am not decided on internal wall finish yet - wet renderers vs plasterboard. I am happy with either solution, so I guess I'll use one that will be cheaper. Why is glueing gyprock on top of Hebel is not a recommended practice? Alex, do you have some links that provide more details about why gluing gyprock on top of Hebel is not a recommended practice? I am aware of concrete belts, structural drawings have them. Yes that will require extra concrete :( I feel like I may have bitten off more than I can chew, but if thousands of people in Europe can do it, then it shouldn't be that hard, right? 🤷♂️ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Hebel has a lot of fantastic properties, I absolutely love working with it and it has insane thermal properties, ( we are currently building 5 homes from Hebel powerpanels and you walk in on a 35 degree day and they are super cool). Unfortunately one property it doesn't have is the ability for construction adhesive to stick to it very well. As for screwing furring channels onto it, Hilti make some special crews for Hebel so I would give them a buzz. All the best with your tradie search. If you pull it off it will be a fantastic home. Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 14Apr 14, 2023 11:00 pm alexp79 re glueing gyprock to Hebel: I have read concerns about mould appearing behind gyprock, mainly due to different levels of vapour permeability between 2 materials, but it will be worse if your external finish is not vapour permeable. I think you should try and use 'breathing' finishes from the outside if you want to prevent issues with the mould between gyprock and AAC. I don't want to have mould! Our current old house is incredibly mouldy and I absolutely want to avoid mould in the new one. That is why we are aiming for PassivHouse certification. I really hope that good insulation, airtightness, avoiding thermal bridges and mechanical ventilation will avoid condensation and buildup of mould. But I will double check with our consultant on what he thinks about the mould behind gyprock. There will be a layer of insulation on the outside and render on top of it. I agree the render should be breathable. I haven't done much research there, all I know is that acrylic render is non breathable, so it will probably be something else. Ashington Homes All the best with your tradie search. If you pull it off it will be a fantastic home. Thank you Simon. I will surely post updates every now and then. Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 15Apr 14, 2023 11:41 pm I think you would need ERV (not just HRV) system in order to control humidity through mechanical ventilation if you are trying to hit PassivHaus level of air tightness. I am not of big supporter of PassivHaus idea for Australia (for Norway and Russia yes, but not for Sydney) where people are usually spending a lot of times outdoors and rely a lot on natural ventilation. R value of 30 cm Hebel block should be around 2.0 but when multiplied with high density multiplier and thermal mass properties, it should be probably around 3.0 for Sydney. If you are targeting PassiveHouse standards then you might be probably adding another R2.5-3.0 of insulation on top? But if you are looking for a breathable one, then you should avoid EPS and focus in Rockwool or mineral wool. That means you might require vented facade and external cladding, this is not going to be cheap. Re: Hebel PowerBlock ? 16Apr 15, 2023 7:58 pm Have witnessed the high and lows of people using Hebel blocks over the years. Well built places in good time frames to a couple of unfinished places that have been demolished. Mostly found block and bricklayers are not interested in laying Hebel. Although the blocks are accurate in dimension keeping them level is achieved by sanding, not building bed glue. Brickies wont sand. Engineering is a massive stumbling block, have masonry footing design, could have tie down rods placed every 1m from footing/slab to roof. Speak with a distributor in your area to find any contacts for laying, check any work and make sure have a bandsaw. Hard plaster internally or gyprock internally is fine and you will find specs on that. Think about ceiling to wall junction, cornice, square set, who comes first or last etc. If double story best to get steel erected and build walls/set out to that, floor and start again. My understanding a solid wall has to be painted to prevent moisture ingress, caulking around doors/windows etc (same with solid 230mm brick walls) CSR where bringing in blocks from China plant, not sure what’s happening with that now, but last place involved with the customer was gifted blocks made in Australia Not sure what the difference is in Europe, seems to be “understood” better there 1000000% definitely add insulation. I have in my home and it makes a big difference minimising sound transfer. Insulation is pretty cheap and definitely worth it 2 7020 Since you are in the design stage then I would direct your questions, in writing of course, to your designer. Depending on the trust you have in the competence of your… 4 6176 Would also like an opinion from anyone that has used xcem over hebel for floors. Thanks 1 15616 |