Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 2Aug 30, 2022 8:42 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 6Aug 30, 2022 1:20 pm strannik curious, is it possible to calculate the rating manually without using any specialised software? is there some formula or something, or does it require 3d modelling etc? All codes have a least 3 alternate methods, a simplified, calculation based and Software simulation (3d fem) From least to most accurate, but simulations need to cross checked What matters is who is licensed to certify the method's used. Engineers can use any of the 3 hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 7Aug 30, 2022 6:58 pm StructuralBIMGuy strannik curious, is it possible to calculate the rating manually without using any specialised software? is there some formula or something, or does it require 3d modelling etc? All codes have a least 3 alternate methods, a simplified, calculation based and Software simulation (3d fem) From least to most accurate, but simulations need to cross checked What matters is who is licensed to certify the method's used. Engineers can use any of the 3 hth i'm curious to just do the calcs myself to verify the results engineers came up with. cause it seems that their results show that the build is just meeting the minimum standard, despite all the double glazed windows and internal/external wall/ceiling insulation we've packed into it. is there a link where i can read about the first two methods? Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 8Aug 31, 2022 9:46 am Building, engineering and energy regulations are state defined and regulated best to contact your local building authority and talk to the Building Surveyor. I can say the simplified method use to be in the ABC Cookbook (Australian building construction codes -> now NCC) On line link -> Probably taken down-> maybe try a hard copy in the library? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 9Aug 31, 2022 10:00 am strannik StructuralBIMGuy strannik curious, is it possible to calculate the rating manually without using any specialised software? is there some formula or something, or does it require 3d modelling etc? All codes have a least 3 alternate methods, a simplified, calculation based and Software simulation (3d fem) From least to most accurate, but simulations need to cross checked What matters is who is licensed to certify the method's used. Engineers can use any of the 3 hth i'm curious to just do the calcs myself to verify the results engineers came up with. cause it seems that their results show that the build is just meeting the minimum standard, despite all the double glazed windows and internal/external wall/ceiling insulation we've packed into it. is there a link where i can read about the first two methods? Search for Hero software. There is a free version (or at least there used to be) that you can use for your own project. You draw your plan, configure it all and it will calc the (estimated - not certified) Nathers rating. Just bear in mind if you aren't an expert and trained you'll most likely miss things and the rating won't be accurate. It's good to play around with though and see what impact changes have (note that if you want to get really serious it is best to engage a professional modeller who can advise you how to improve the score). For me, I found that if I added clerestory windows to my open plan living space the house jumps around half a star rating (front of house is North so hard to get good orientation) - just have to convince my builder that I want to do that now! Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 10Aug 31, 2022 10:01 am strannik i'm curious to just do the calcs myself to verify the results engineers came up with. cause it seems that their results show that the build is just meeting the minimum standard, despite all the double glazed windows and internal/external wall/ceiling insulation we've packed into it. is there a link where i can read about the first two methods? https://www.nathers.gov.au/nathers-accredited-software BERS and HERO are both free at the moment. Whether you will have the knowhow or inclination on how to use the software is another matter. The actual Nathers rating of your build can be provided to you by the Builder. Its a printable/savble PDF report out of any of the software packages and you may be able to workout how to use that output as input into the other software. However, you are likely wasting your time in doing so. It would be much better use of your time in validating that the inputs in the report you get back were accurate (ie window location/size, climate zones, insulation ratings etc) than questioning if the calc is correct. The software model will only be as good as the data that goes into it, so you dont really need to validate the calculations, just that the inputs are correct, which you can 100% do without the software. Report in hand, access to all build documentation you could do the validations inside of an hour without prior experience. Good luck Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 11Aug 31, 2022 11:06 am Noname strannik i'm curious to just do the calcs myself to verify the results engineers came up with. cause it seems that their results show that the build is just meeting the minimum standard, despite all the double glazed windows and internal/external wall/ceiling insulation we've packed into it. is there a link where i can read about the first two methods? https://www.nathers.gov.au/nathers-accredited-software BERS and HERO are both free at the moment. Whether you will have the knowhow or inclination on how to use the software is another matter. The actual Nathers rating of your build can be provided to you by the Builder. Its a printable/savble PDF report out of any of the software packages and you may be able to workout how to use that output as input into the other software. However, you are likely wasting your time in doing so. It would be much better use of your time in validating that the inputs in the report you get back were accurate (ie window location/size, climate zones, insulation ratings etc) than questioning if the calc is correct. The software model will only be as good as the data that goes into it, so you dont really need to validate the calculations, just that the inputs are correct, which you can 100% do without the software. Report in hand, access to all build documentation you could do the validations inside of an hour without prior experience. Good luck thanks, i might give that a try on the weekend. i do have the BERS certificate/report from the certifiers, it just struck me that the rating is right at the minimum required where i would expect it to be higher. it does appear that they have modelled it all on single glazing and no additional insulation beyond what is supplied by builders as standard, so i wanted to calculate the true rating. won't be a waste of time, as i will learn something along the way, but i'm basically doing this because i'm curious. Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 12Aug 31, 2022 11:13 am strannik Noname strannik i'm curious to just do the calcs myself to verify the results engineers came up with. cause it seems that their results show that the build is just meeting the minimum standard, despite all the double glazed windows and internal/external wall/ceiling insulation we've packed into it. is there a link where i can read about the first two methods? https://www.nathers.gov.au/nathers-accredited-software BERS and HERO are both free at the moment. Whether you will have the knowhow or inclination on how to use the software is another matter. The actual Nathers rating of your build can be provided to you by the Builder. Its a printable/savble PDF report out of any of the software packages and you may be able to workout how to use that output as input into the other software. However, you are likely wasting your time in doing so. It would be much better use of your time in validating that the inputs in the report you get back were accurate (ie window location/size, climate zones, insulation ratings etc) than questioning if the calc is correct. The software model will only be as good as the data that goes into it, so you dont really need to validate the calculations, just that the inputs are correct, which you can 100% do without the software. Report in hand, access to all build documentation you could do the validations inside of an hour without prior experience. Good luck thanks, i might give that a try on the weekend. i do have the BERS certificate/report from the certifiers, it just struck me that the rating is right at the minimum required where i would expect it to be higher. it does appear that they have modelled it all on single glazing and no additional insulation beyond what is supplied by builders as standard, so i wanted to calculate the true rating. won't be a waste of time, as i will learn something along the way, but i'm basically doing this because i'm curious. if they've modeled it not based on your actual build, i would have them do it again and point out to them their errors. Youre entitled to a report based on your actual build (you have effectively paid for it as it were) and not a generic one they've pre-prepared for the base house build that they likely rely on just to get it over the line. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 13Aug 31, 2022 11:26 am Noname if they've modeled it not based on your actual build, i would have them do it again and point out to them their errors. Youre entitled to a report based on your actual build (you have effectively paid for it as it were) and not a generic one they've pre-prepared for the base house build that they likely rely on just to get it over the line. does it matter though? what does this report impact other than demonstrating that the build complies? if it's only to satisfy my curiosity, i'd rather spend my time figuring out how to use the BERS software, than trying to get the builder to update it mid-build (not even sure what impact it would have on existing approvals) Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 14Aug 31, 2022 11:37 am strannik Noname if they've modeled it not based on your actual build, i would have them do it again and point out to them their errors. Youre entitled to a report based on your actual build (you have effectively paid for it as it were) and not a generic one they've pre-prepared for the base house build that they likely rely on just to get it over the line. does it matter though? what does this report impact other than demonstrating that the build complies? if it's only to satisfy my curiosity, i'd rather spend my time figuring out how to use the BERS software, than trying to get the builder to update it mid-build (not even sure what impact it would have on existing approvals) It matters on a few levels. Mainly calling your builder out for doing the wrong thing and letting them know that even if they aren't onto the detail of your build, you are. As to approvals, it wouldn't impact them unless they came in under - at which point, youd want them to rectify this, at their cost. Its kind of weird that they've not done the job properly. It begs the questions, "why not?" and "what else are you not doing?" In anycase, i dont care either way, but I hate being treated like a mushroom or layed (apparently the correct gramatical version of this word is "forbidden" - lol) to, so i personally dont let stuff like this slide and expect them to do the job that im paying for. I only ever give my builders an opportunity to give me a reasonable explanation once, after that they get called out. Thankfully, that hasn't happened this time round for me. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 15Aug 31, 2022 1:51 pm strannik Noname if they've modeled it not based on your actual build, i would have them do it again and point out to them their errors. Youre entitled to a report based on your actual build (you have effectively paid for it as it were) and not a generic one they've pre-prepared for the base house build that they likely rely on just to get it over the line. does it matter though? what does this report impact other than demonstrating that the build complies? if it's only to satisfy my curiosity, i'd rather spend my time figuring out how to use the BERS software, than trying to get the builder to update it mid-build (not even sure what impact it would have on existing approvals) The software is imperfect (like all models), but it's still a good indication of how your house will perform thermally (assuming it's build properly). It can be used to help you go way beyond 6-7 stars if you want better performance. I'd just pay someone to do it as they know how to input everything properly and can also recommend options for improvement based on bang for buck (or orientation changes). Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 16Aug 31, 2022 1:53 pm Fredescu I wonder if volume builders will have to start giving a toss about orientation now. That sounds like a lot of effort. Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 17Aug 31, 2022 2:01 pm stonesthrow The software is imperfect (like all models), but it's still a good indication of how your house will perform thermally (assuming it's build properly). It can be used to help you go way beyond 6-7 stars if you want better performance. I'd just pay someone to do it as they know how to input everything properly and can also recommend options for improvement based on bang for buck (or orientation changes). i'm not too hung up on thermal performance (i'll see what's like when the house is built, and we're living in it). we've done everything we've deemed necessary for ourselves, which is way above the minimum standard anyway, this was mainly a curiosity issue. nothing will change at this stage unless there's some problem during construction that requires a change, all the improvements will go into the next house we may or may not build Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 18Aug 31, 2022 2:06 pm strannik stonesthrow The software is imperfect (like all models), but it's still a good indication of how your house will perform thermally (assuming it's build properly). It can be used to help you go way beyond 6-7 stars if you want better performance. I'd just pay someone to do it as they know how to input everything properly and can also recommend options for improvement based on bang for buck (or orientation changes). i'm not too hung up on thermal performance (i'll see what's like when the house is built, and we're living in it). we've done everything we've deemed necessary for ourselves, which is way above the minimum standard anyway, this was mainly a curiosity issue. nothing will change at this stage unless there's some problem during construction that requires a change, all the improvements will go into the next house we may or may not build Seems weird to me to not care about how hold or cold your house gets Maybe it's southern states thing! Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 19Aug 31, 2022 3:12 pm stonesthrow Seems weird to me to not care about how hold or cold your house gets Maybe it's southern states thing! we're in QLD mate, our doors and windows are usually open all year round anyway on a serious note, it's not that we don't care, we did put double glazed/laminated windows where we deemed necessary, tons of extra insulation everywhere as well as extra air conditioning zones for finer control. it's more that this 'rating' isn't really going to tell me how i'm going to feel in the house. especially given that me and my wife have different perception of what's cold/hot/comfortable. Re: Minimum energy standards rise from 5.5 to 7 20Aug 31, 2022 3:52 pm stonesthrow Fredescu I wonder if volume builders will have to start giving a toss about orientation now. That sounds like a lot of effort. orientation is considdered in the energy efficiency rating. So While builders may not "care" they still have to account for it in the total rating. So houses that are poorly orientated due to block choice by the owners and built to a base sepc may have to have upgrades included owners didnt want, just to meet the minimum standards. Sometimes its just a few fans, other times its expensive rain water tanks etc. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. My land is 260m2 (10m x 26m) located in claymore NSW. Under campbelltown council. I know in general the following setbacks would apply ground floor side setback =… 0 7526 Hi, only for walking. It is a narrow 1.5m paved area next to house. 2 6105 Thanks Draftroom that definitely helps a heap. We are still at the very early stage of planning to see what kind of house would fit on our plot. While we are on a… 3 16446 |