Browse Forums Eco Living Re: Rain water harvesting system 2Dec 08, 2021 9:52 am 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water harvesting system 3Dec 13, 2021 12:22 am 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water harvesting system 5May 07, 2022 5:00 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water harvesting system 6May 11, 2022 11:12 pm Hi SaveH20, Once again, your detailed reply has given me a tonne of information to digest. So, what I take away is that most plumbers would just bury the same sized DWV pipe from the head of the wet system to the tank, resulting in insufficient flushing velocity close to the head… I wasn’t present to see if that’s what my plumber did, but I suspect as that’s the easiest option, that’s most likely what he did… Secondly, for the overflow, either the first tank needs to be raised to take into account the invert of a horizontal overflow pipe, or we fit a vertical flanged overflow outlet. Thirdly, the hose from the bottom of the riser that normally goes into the low restriction inlet, I take that into a 40mm manifold balance system feeding water into all but the draw tank. Are there ready made manifold balance system with ball valves that you can suggest? Lastly, without your DIY sediment trap, are there anything I can ask the plumber to do now to get rid of sludge that will inevitably collect as there won’t be adequate flush velocity in those pipes? Or would I just wait for a downpour and open the knife gate valve to flush the pipes? PS. Plumber really against idea of pressure tank… He said it hides leaks, and requires regular inspections / servicing Re: Rain water harvesting system 7May 12, 2022 10:48 pm supa007 So, what I take away is that most plumbers would just bury the same sized DWV pipe from the head of the wet system to the tank, resulting in insufficient flushing velocity close to the head… I wasn’t present to see if that’s what my plumber did, but I suspect as that’s the easiest option, that’s most likely what he did… Plumbers are not trained in rainwater harvesting. I always try to explain the 'science' and quote the regulations or lack of but educating individual plumbers and builders is difficult when so many are set in their ways and won't admit ignorance. It is easy to find examples of the most basic mistakes on plumber's website galleries who for sometimes decades have claimed to be rainwater harvesting experts yet habitually install woefully sub standard and unnecessarily expensive systems. When plumbers plumb a rainwater harvesting wet system, they effectively remove the stormwater system in that area! Plumbers plumb and size wet system pipes as they would a stormwater system but wet system rainwater pipes between the downpipe and a water tank are not mentioned in the NCC Part 2 (BCA), the NCC Part 3 (PCA), AS/NZS 3500.3 and AS/NZS 3500.1. They are private pipes on private property but few industry 'professionals' realise this. If nothing else, plumbing large flooded pipes that do not flush and promote stagnation also fails the NCC Part 3 Performance Requirements that state: “Performance Requirements BP6.1 Stored rainwater (1)A rainwater harvesting system must be designed, constructed and installed in such a manner as to reduce the likelihood of stored rainwater becoming contaminated or otherwise posing a hazard to public health. BP6.2 Rainwater harvesting system installation (1)A rainwater harvesting system must be designed, constructed and installed in such a manner as to— (a)avoid the likelihood of contamination of water within the rainwater harvesting system, the water service, or the Network Utility Operator’s drinking water supply (if connected); Standard wet system installations are recognised hazards and without doubt, the plumber would have laid the same size subsurface pipes the entire length. supa007 Secondly, for the overflow, either the first tank needs to be raised to take into account the invert of a horizontal overflow pipe, or we fit a vertical flanged overflow outlet. A vertical flanged elbow overflow should not be fitted to the same height hole as a horizontal outlet because the weir's crest (the top of the vertical section) would be about 120mm above the height of the outlet hole's invert. The higher the water is above the 'weir', the more flow capacity you have but fitting a vertical flanged elbow raises the weir height which isn't good unless you have a tank with a domed roof and a high meshed (basket) inlet that still provides a reasonable height of water above the 'weir' before the tank overtops. Are you able to post a photo of the actual tank design that shows the overflow location and top meshed inlet's position? Your primary fill tank's correctly designed overflow capacity is vital to prevent overtopping. If you work out your inflow rate to each bank plus a safety margin during a 1:20 ARI, I will be able to tell you the size overflow you require and the flow rates with different heights above a vertical elbow's crest. Getting the overflow right is critical for your system but I need to know the tank's overflow position and the roof design. The two primary fill tanks would only need raising 100mm or so. The other tanks water levels will settle at either the level of a horizontal invert or a vertical elbow's crest but the other tank's levels will need mitigation above this level to match the fill tank's extra height of water above the invert or crest during heavy rain. Obviously there would need to be a different calculation made for a tank that has a domed roof and a high meshed basket intake than would be for a tank with a flat roof. supa007 Thirdly, the hose from the bottom of the riser that normally goes into the low restriction inlet, I take that into a 40mm manifold balance system feeding water into all but the draw tank. Are there ready made manifold balance system with ball valves that you can suggest? I made a mistake with that recommendation. Our systems don't require overflow pipes whereas your system does and I was thinking about what we would normally do. You can however fit an inline valve to manually open or close the low restriction hose when needed, I have this on one of my 4 tanks when I want to divert water from other pipes supplying higher tanks but I only do it during light rain when needed whereas you would benefit most during heavy rain because of the massive amounts of water flowing into the two fill tanks. If it was permanently open, the additional tanks would be prime to overtopping because the vertical riser always has more head than the two primary fill tanks will ever have. A secondary advantage of diverting some flow to the manifold is to lower the post rain water levels in the vertical risers and the downpipes to the same level as the water in the tanks. You need to make the manifold balance system yourself. An advantage is that apart from the end tanks, each tank only needs one inlet/outlet valve which a tee would fit to. Sizing would come back to how quickly the tanks would fill and cost, for example, would you want to have ball valves at each inlet valve. The manifold's main line would however usually be larger than the branch line and the ball valve and inlet fitted to each additional tank because they are balanced multiples. supa007 Lastly, without your DIY sediment trap, are there anything I can ask the plumber to do now to get rid of sludge that will inevitably collect as there won’t be adequate flush velocity in those pipes? Or would I just wait for a downpour and open the knife gate valve to flush the pipes? If he has installed it as per stormwater regs, the pipe will have a slope and a sliding gate valve will be reasonably effective. The sediment trap wastes a lot less water but you will have huge excess to your storage capacity and so waste is not a consideration but because the plumber would have no doubt have installed large pipes, a properly set up flush outlet would now be the better option. Most people on level blocks don't have this option and wet systems are 'drained' via uncapping an inspection outlet fitted to the vertical riser. This is messy plus the subsurface pipe ramains full of water anyway. supa007 PS. Plumber really against idea of pressure tank… He said it hides leaks, and requires regular inspections / servicing Complaints about pressure tanks usually relate to the bladder or diaphragm failing but this is because people often use cheaper tanks with cheaper industrial rubber bladders or diaphragms. Rainwater lacks minerals and will draw elastomers from the rubber, tainting the water as well as making the rubber brittle. Rainwater should only be used with tanks that have a butyl bladder or diaphragm. The pressure is recommended to be checked every six months but once a year is usually ok. To check the pressure, the system must be drained, don't make the common mistake of checking the pressure when the system is pressurised. It is easy to install a ball valve to the pipe to drain the system. The pump's cut in pressure must also be 2 psi above the tank's pressure so that the tank still has water in it when the pump kicks in. The pump's cut in setting must be fit for purpose when retro fitting a pressure tank. The tank will have a schrader valve at the top and you can fit a small pressure gauge to it in any case. If there is a leak in the system, the pump will occasionally start to re-pressurise, that is not hiding any leak that might happen! Most often the leak will be a toilet cistern valve set too high at the air gap. I sell pressure tanks including 60L and 80 L Pressure Wave but I also have 165 L American ones. What are you paying for the 100 L one? The 165 L ones have a 1.25" NPT thread but i have 1.25" x 32mm BSP brass adaptors. You would use an additional 32mm x 25mm poly nipple if you were using a 25mm hose to supply the pump. Re 25mm hose, not sure if I have already posted this but be aware that the commonly used 25mm Blue Stripe poly hose has an internal diameter of 21mm. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Rain water harvesting system 8Jul 22, 2022 11:55 am Further update. Absolutely disappointed at my plumber!!! I sent a lengthy email to the boss detailing what I wanted done for the rainwater harvesting system with diagrams, explanations, and they just did what they’ve always done and not what I wanted. So, 8 tanks all level, connected in series, 3 overflow pipes (not vertical flanged), 5 inlet sites (3 wet, 2 dry), no low restriction inlets, no sediment traps, pump without pressure tank (with 90 degree elbow 10cm from the inlet!). When confronted, just said he’s got the experience and knows what works and what doesn’t. And when I questioned him about detrimental effect of having an elbow so close to the pump inlet, said he’s never heard of it! Is there anything I can do about my situation?! Re: Rain water harvesting system 9Jul 22, 2022 2:55 pm The best thing is to fit a good floating filter in the tank that supplies the pump. These are also called floating suction filters, floating intake filters and a few other things. I will be releasing one soon and will most probably refer to it as a Water Tank Floating Filter because I believe it is a more readily understood term and better than the Fina Filta Floata TradeMark I was toying with lol. A floating filter is a hose that is connected to a buoy at one end and a low drain valve at the other end. There is a 'filter' fitted to the end of the hose at the buoy end and this is 200-300mm below the water surface where the best quality water is. The tank outlet delivers water via the usual hose to the pump. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ There are quite a few sold now but they are pricey and most also have faults. 1. Water passes through mosquito proof 955 micron mesh when entering the tank but many floating filters sold have an expensive 1,200 micron stainless steel mesh filter which renders them useless and if you do rub it to clean it, a lot of muck simply falls into the filter. 2. Many of the filters will settle on the sediment layer when the water level gets low because they are not fitted with a support disc that keeps the 'filter' raised. Mine won't have these faults but it will still be cheaper plus I am looking at the choice of 200 or 400 micron filtration. To fit one, you need to empty the tank and have a hole drilled that is then fitted with an outlet valve with the floating filter already fitted to it. Once there is water in the tank, you just make sure that the hose is flooded before switching on the power to the pump. There are instruction videos on You Tube. Re your installation, having the elbow 10cm (100mm) from the pump's suction port isn't too bad but it depends on the hose's internal diameter and the velocity through the elbow of course. If the pump only supplies cisterns, no problem because cisterns only fill at 6 lpm. A lot of "know everything" plumbers fit the elbow directly on the pump's suction port! Does the plumber have a website complete with a gallery of his 'workmanship'? I would love to have a look. Also read the post linked below re 10 endemic mistakes that plumbers make just with a water pumps! BTW, there are more than 10 but 10 is a nice number. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=103597&p=1897978&hilit=blue+stripe#p1897978 Next links are to forum members long term experience with sediment traps. Super simple and super effective. https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=1551215#p1551215 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=1146540#p1146540 A wet system does not flush, it drains. Once the hydraulic head in the downpipes has drained, there is no flushing velocity and wet system pipes are usually lengthy. The next thread's OP made his own floating filter. Worth a read and there are photos. It is a copybook system. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97686 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. There is a whole lot more to know than just the answers you seek but they are a good start. Overflow outlets have a mosquito proof mesh. These… 3 8465 Can a plumber put a tap on a rain water tank which is full? Tank is similar to one in photo. Cheers. 0 1705 the sun master is the solar heating to "warm" the water in the tank the S26 is your hot water system which will heat the water (25 degrees?) so with both turned on you… 2 14141 |