Browse Forums Building A New House Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 3Jul 19, 2020 9:51 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 8Jul 21, 2020 6:41 pm Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 9Jul 21, 2020 7:43 pm chippy @alexp79 In RBV the brick is structural. The inside wall (in this case brick) is the structural element. However I do agree that it is no more prone to cracking even if built with 90mm bricks as that's what just about all internal brick walls are and they don't have an issue with cracking. Disagree. In RBV construction timber/steel frame still remains a structural element, brick is non-structural component, same way as brick veneer. Internal leaf brick walls are just installed same way as you would be installing internal non-loadbearing brick walls. Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 10Jul 21, 2020 8:09 pm alexp79 chippy @alexp79 In RBV the brick is structural. The inside wall (in this case brick) is the structural element. However I do agree that it is no more prone to cracking even if built with 90mm bricks as that's what just about all internal brick walls are and they don't have an issue with cracking. Disagree. In RBV construction timber/steel frame still remains a structural element, brick is non-structural component, same way as brick veneer. Internal leaf brick walls are just installed same way as you would be installing internal non-loadbearing brick walls. Then I don't think you understand the basics of construction. The load is on the inside leaf. For standard brick veneer the frame takes the load and the brick is a veneer ie non structural element. RBV is the opposite. Think double brick but with the outside leaf of brick replaced with timber or steel frame and cladding. In double brick it's the inside leaf of brick that carries the structural elements. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 11Jul 21, 2020 8:18 pm chippy alexp79 chippy @alexp79 In RBV the brick is structural. The inside wall (in this case brick) is the structural element. However I do agree that it is no more prone to cracking even if built with 90mm bricks as that's what just about all internal brick walls are and they don't have an issue with cracking. Disagree. In RBV construction timber/steel frame still remains a structural element, brick is non-structural component, same way as brick veneer. Internal leaf brick walls are just installed same way as you would be installing internal non-loadbearing brick walls. Then I don't think you understand the basics of construction. The load is on the inside leaf. For standard brick veneer the frame takes the load and the brick is a veneer ie non structural element. RBV is the opposite. Think double brick but with the outside leaf of brick replaced with timber or steel frame and cladding. In double brick it's the inside leaf of brick that carries the structural elements. Hehe. Then tell me why would you need a timber frame and how exactly you suggest to connect your inside leaf with the roof (and distribute the load) considering that you still have frame on the outside? Moreover, how exactly you suggest your "structural brick" from the top floor to carry load to the bottom and the footing when let's say you have RBV only for the top floor and bottom floor stays standard brick veneer? Even from its name it is called reverse BRICK VENEER, suggesting that brick is not a structural element. RBV is still at cladded timber framed house with the only exception that it has internal brick walls constructed next to the outside studs with a vent gap in between (e.g. it may not necessarily be all of them, only some). PS. I have helped my friends with designing RBV house at Central Coast last year, so I do know the particulars. Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 12Jul 21, 2020 9:13 pm I give up. If you want to troll back through my posts you'll see the RBV double storey, concrete raft lower and upper floor house I built 10 years ago. It's a double brick house with the outside leaf removed and a timber frame in its place. In WA we build double brick all the time so we know how to build houses that have internal brick walls. As you aren't in the building industry I understand how some of these concepts would be a little hard to grasp. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 13Jul 21, 2020 9:28 pm chippy I give up. If you want to troll back through my posts you'll see the RBV double storey, concrete raft lower and upper floor house I built 10 years ago. It's a double brick house with the outside leaf removed and a timber frame in its place. In WA we build double brick all the time so we know how to build houses that have internal brick walls. As you aren't in the building industry I understand how some of these concepts would be a little hard to grasp. In you case you just have a single brick construction with the cladding attached via timber studs. Once again, in proper RBV house brick, as the name stands, brick is a VENEER and the frame is load bearing element. But probably in WA everything is different, even naming. Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 14Jul 22, 2020 11:04 am mumstheword, here are some drawings I did a while back for our place plus a link http://www.aprbuildingservices.com.au/D1_R_Values.html As you can see the R-value for a standard BV wall with the usual R2.5 batts and foil is R 2.68. I'd imagine the R-value for a reverse BV would be similar before improvements. Here are ours and you can see we have improved the thermal performances of both the ground floor and the upper first floor considerably. As with all these, your up front costs and your return on investment will vary as will the width of the walls. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ We were aiming to get our external walls up around R-5.0. I hope this helps. Stewie Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 15Jul 22, 2020 12:05 pm Stewie D mumstheword, here are some drawings I did a while back for our place plus a link http://www.aprbuildingservices.com.au/D1_R_Values.html As you can see the R-value for a standard BV wall with the usual R2.5 batts and foil is R 2.68. I'd imagine the R-value for a reverse BV would be similar before improvements. Here are ours and you can see we have improved the thermal performances of both the ground floor and the upper first floor considerably. As with all these, your up front costs and your return on investment will vary as will the width of the walls. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ We were aiming to get our external walls up around R-5.0. I hope this helps. Stewie I can only say a big thank you Stewie, you are so kind to share this, gives me info to discuss with the builder, stay blessed.regards Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 16Jul 22, 2020 1:23 pm Stewie D mumstheword, here are some drawings I did a while back for our place plus a link http://www.aprbuildingservices.com.au/D1_R_Values.html As you can see the R-value for a standard BV wall with the usual R2.5 batts and foil is R 2.68. I'd imagine the R-value for a reverse BV would be similar before improvements. Here are ours and you can see we have improved the thermal performances of both the ground floor and the upper first floor considerably. As with all these, your up front costs and your return on investment will vary as will the width of the walls. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ We were aiming to get our external walls up around R-5.0. I hope this helps. Stewie Just few cents: Mixing batts with poly if far from perfect due to significance differences in vapour permeability of the 2 materials. Meaning that the moisture released from the house may be constantly accumulating on the outer side of your studs and outer insulation, in the long term resulting into mould issues and even structural damage. You have sarking membrane to potentially prevent this and this is a good move in theory, however, but installation should be perfect to completely waterproof your studs from the outside (without any penetrations). Second point is that calculated values are not taking into account bridging effect of the timber studs plus installation defects, which will reduce the actual R values by at least 25% on average, but significantly more in your case if you get your insulation wet due to moisture issues I have mentioned above. Also, keep in mind that 140 mm studs are not really standard and may become challenging to factory produce those, so frames would have to be put together onsite. I would really like to see how you are proposing to connect and align 90 mm at the bottom with with 140 mm frame at the top, too. I can see also a number of challenges to be placed with placing ties and flashings into 20 mm air gap between poly and brick wall (ultimately reducing the calculated R values even further of penetrations are not properly sealed). And as a general health advice, NEVER opt in for polysterene insulation if you are really caring about health of your family members unless manufacturer provides you full MSDS where he clearly illustrates what materials have been used as a fire protection. Majority of Insulation grade EPS is highly carcinogenic due to toxic HBCD bromines being added for the fire protection purposes. HBCD containing insulation has to be banned in Australia as it has been banned in Europe and US. Even though it is outside, it will still constantly VOCs to your inside through the opened windows. In Europe, few companies like 3M are already producing EPS without HBCD where they use less toxic material, however, it still not phased out completely everywhere and a lot of insulation EPS produced in older days is still distributed to the other countries. Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 17Jul 22, 2020 9:10 pm Those R-values are nominal. You can come up with all sorts of variations on installation methods that will affect the final result. I take your point though. I'll be doing all the framing, insulation, bricklaying etc so I intend to do a bit better job than the average trade. As for the studs, we are probably going with 90mm for both ground and first floor. As for aligning them ? Huh? There are floor joists and sheet flooring sitting on the top plate of the ground floor, then the bottom plate of the first floor sits on that. Pretty standard construction methodology. As for the poly sheets, we have been looking at a few varieties and haven't made up our minds yet. I saw one of your other posts pointing out the problems you mention above so we will be weighing up the pros and cons. Thanks for the info though. Stewie Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 18Jul 22, 2020 10:05 pm Stewie D Those R-values are nominal. You can come up with all sorts of variations on installation methods that will affect the final result. I take your point though. I'll be doing all the framing, insulation, bricklaying etc so I intend to do a bit better job than the average trade. As for the studs, we are probably going with 90mm for both ground and first floor. As for aligning them ? Huh? There are floor joists and sheet flooring sitting on the top plate of the ground floor, then the bottom plate of the first floor sits on that. Pretty standard construction methodology. As for the poly sheets, we have been looking at a few varieties and haven't made up our minds yet. I saw one of your other posts pointing out the problems you mention above so we will be weighing up the pros and cons. Thanks for the info though. Stewie Re aligning, will be hard to align 140 mm studs on top of 90 mm due to 50 mm overhang from the either side. Instead of going 140 mm can also consider using double studs/staggered studs with standard insulation, they can also provide much better soundproofing to your walls. Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 19Jul 23, 2020 7:30 am See my previous post - "As for the studs, we are probably going with 90mm for both ground and first floor. As for aligning them ? Huh? There are floor joists and sheet flooring sitting on the top plate of the ground floor, then the bottom plate of the first floor sits on that." If we went with 140mm it still wouldn't be a problem. I can post a drawing if you like. Stewie Re: reverse brick veneer build sydney 20Jul 23, 2020 11:48 am Stewie D See my previous post - "As for the studs, we are probably going with 90mm for both ground and first floor. As for aligning them ? Huh? There are floor joists and sheet flooring sitting on the top plate of the ground floor, then the bottom plate of the first floor sits on that." If we went with 140mm it still wouldn't be a problem. I can post a drawing if you like. Stewie As long as your structural engineer will be happy with the fact that around 1/3 of your top level studs are not really load bearing while other 2/3 is 2 8358 can’t tell from the photo, a tie down rod will be 12mm, is it a steel beam? he should be able to work it out 1 4462 5 10476 |