Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 2Mar 24, 2020 6:35 pm Jty Budget is tight...$300k, therefore looking for ways to save money. I think the days of $300K 2S builds are gone my 2c It's not that they can't do it... unfortunately, there's no appetite for low margins using poorly trained/qualified trades Jty 1) is it worth paying a designer to design our home layout considering it’s a narrow lot? And then get quotes from different builders? How much would a design cost does anyone know? Or would it be much cheaper to just go through the builder for a design. Yep, get a the design & Engineering done before you approach 3 builders to quote You'll also need a contour and soil report, 3D Bim Quantities , etc Design Cost 2-3 % of the contract The builder generally charges you the same but will own copyright and not share the build Quantities, so no shopping their price around...basically you are stuck with them one you hand over a deposit for Preparation of Plans (PPA) Jty 3) would it also be cheaper to arrange site works ourselves to save money? Or is this a major hassle? You can do the site works yourself... it depends on what is required hence the need for a geotech report and Contour Survey...weight up the options Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 3Mar 24, 2020 6:44 pm Jty Hi I have a few questions about our narrow lot build. Any advice would be great, TIA. Our lot is 10x44 and house will be roughly 260-270sqm, double storey. Budget is tight...$300k, therefore looking for ways to save money. 1) is it worth paying a designer to design our home layout considering it’s a narrow lot? And then get quotes from different builders? How much would a design cost does anyone know? Or would it be much cheaper to just go through the builder for a design. 2) just wondering how much we would save if we had the brick laying and plastering deleted from the build and had our mates do instead and not through the builder? I think builders builders charge a 20% profit margin? But I’m not sure how much a bricklayer and plasterer would be. 3) would it also be cheaper to arrange site works ourselves to save money? Or is this a major hassle? Cheers Hi Jty The first thing I'd recommend if you want to save money is to build single storey. You will fit a 270m² house on that block (zoning dependant). If you go double storey you won't get a high spec build if you can even get a double storey house at that price. With regards your other points 1) the cheapest option will be to go direct to the builder. A custom design of your own will cost more. 2) You can't "leave out" the bricklaying or plastering from the price. Some builders will allow you to nominate your own trades but they would just get paid the same rate as the normal trades. If you are the tradie or have a relative that is doing it for free they would get paid for the job and you'd have to work it out between you. 3) it would depend what you mean by site works. If there is retaining or fill that needs to be done then you can probably save by getting the block flat and ready to build on. The builder will most likely want to do their own compaction and final siteworks as they will provide the guarantee in the end. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 4Mar 24, 2020 9:35 pm Thank you for your replies. Ok this makes me nervous we’re not going to get a quality build now. Unfortunately council requires it to be a double storey. There are a lot of the bigger builders who have said they would be able to do this for us (new generation, red ink, plunkett etc) does this mean it will not be quality? What are people’s thoughts on the second level not being double brick? If we did a “skeleton” build would this make the quality better? Thanks Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 5Mar 24, 2020 9:48 pm Also in terms of site work...is there someone that can do everything we would need in one go? We have arranged a surveyor to go out and do a contour survey but I’m not sure about the soil, engineering or what else might be needed. Perhaps this is better for the builder to just do too? Really new to this sorry Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 6Mar 24, 2020 10:23 pm Is it a subdivided block? I've got a block almost identical (43x10) that is a split block. Why does council require double storey? Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 7Mar 24, 2020 10:33 pm chippy Is it a subdivided block? I've got a block almost identical (43x10) that is a split block. Why does council require double storey? Yes it is. I’m not sure, my friend works for the council in planning and she told me. I didn’t ask why. Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 8Mar 25, 2020 12:28 am The council can't tell you what to build. It's only in certain developments that there are covenants that dictate what you can build. I have just (last year) completed a 270m² single storey 4 bed plus study home on a 430m² block. I assume your zoning is R30. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 11Mar 26, 2020 7:26 am Personally, I'd aim for 'quality', not 'quantity'. Unless things have changed recently, Australia builds the largest houses in the world, averaging around 240sqm for new builds. We also have extremely poor building standards. A leaky, energy inefficient home being the norm. Do we really need houses this size? The average UK house is a third this size, & actually shrinking. No, I don't think we'll be building houses that size any time soon. But I think we've got to be much sensible with design. To save money, improve energy efficiency, reducing CO2 emissions & urban sprawl. Heck a smaller home will even save you time spent on cleaning, & time & money on maintenance. So ask yourself, how have you come in at 260-270sqm, a very large house? Do people really need that rarely used guest bedroom. Wouldn't it be better to incorporate this space in a multipurpose room that serves double duty, also used as the second living area, or a study. How about the butler's kitchen? Honestly, often one of the silliest design ideas ever, often complicating family life, making it harder to do the dishes, out prepare food, or whatever you've setup to do back there. How about the voids? Wasted space that can make a home way less thermally efficient. Acting as a giant chimney, making the living areas uncomfortably cold in winter, as much of the heat escapes upstairs. Narrow lots are particularly tricky, as access to sunlight has a huge effect on comfort & energy efficiency. Depending on the orientation, narrow lots can suffer from problems of overshadowing by a northern neighbour (for eastern & western frontage blocks). While northern frontage blocks can have big problems with access of light to living areas (due to the large double garage at the front). Both northern & southern frontage blocks can result in a home with far too much eastern & western glazing, which result in a scorching hot home in summer. Reducing the home size will give more opportunities to position the home so that it is not overshadowed. Money saved can be spent on design to overcome the challenges outlined about, & on improved building quality (such as increasing insulation), to improve energy efficiency, saving money & improving comfort. Below is an extreme example of design overcoming the challenges of a narrow lot, overshadowed by a northern neighbour, a large block of flats. Located at 35 Kangaroo St, Manly, NSW. A traditional design would have resulted in a cold dark home, with zero privacy. Instead the occupants enjoy a private, light filled home, with views of the sky. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ No, I don't think most people would have the budget or inclination to build a home like this. But it just highlights how good design can overcome some very large challenges. Start with something more simple. Getting the basics right, by orientating a home correctly. https://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-design Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 12Mar 26, 2020 8:09 am ddarroch Personally, I'd aim for 'quality', not 'quantity'. Unless things have changed recently, Australia builds the largest houses in the world, averaging around 240sqm for new builds. We also have extremely poor building standards. A leaky, energy inefficient home being the norm. Do we really need houses this size? The average UK house is a third this size, & actually shrinking. No, I don't think we'll be building houses that size any time soon. But I think we've got to be much sensible with design. To save money, improve energy efficiency, reducing CO2 emissions & urban sprawl. Heck a smaller home will even save you time spent on cleaning, & time & money on maintenance. So ask yourself, how have you come in at 260-270sqm, a very large house? Do people really need that rarely used guest bedroom. Wouldn't it be better to incorporate this space in a multipurpose room that serves double duty, also used as the second living area, or a study. How about the butler's kitchen? Honestly, often one of the silliest design ideas ever, often complicating family life, making it harder to do the dishes, out prepare food, or whatever you've setup to do back there. How about the voids? Wasted space that can make a home way less thermally efficient. Acting as a giant chimney, making the living areas uncomfortably cold in winter, as much of the heat escapes upstairs. Narrow lots are particularly tricky, as access to sunlight has a huge effect on comfort & energy efficiency. Depending on the orientation, narrow lots can suffer from problems of overshadowing by a northern neighbour (for eastern & western frontage blocks). While northern frontage blocks can have big problems with access of light to living areas (due to the large double garage at the front). Both northern & southern frontage blocks can result in a home with far too much eastern & western glazing, which result in a scorching hot home in summer. Reducing the home size will give more opportunities to position the home so that it is not overshadowed. Money saved can be spent on design to overcome the challenges outlined about, & on improved building quality (such as increasing insulation), to improve energy efficiency, saving money & improving comfort. Below is an extreme example of design overcoming the challenges of a narrow lot, overshadowed by a northern neighbour, a large block of flats. Located at 35 Kangaroo St, Manly, NSW. A traditional design would have resulted in a cold dark home, with zero privacy. Instead the occupants enjoy a private, light filled home, with views of the sky. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ No, I don't think most people would have the budget or inclination to build a home like this. But it just highlights how good design can overcome some very large challenges. Start with something more simple. Getting the basics right, by orientating a home correctly. https://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-design Thanks for the great info. You are right, positioning is so important. We really don’t want a dark house. I guess there is no need for a really large house but we do have kids and the reason why we are building is because our current house is just too small. 3x2 but only one living area. Toys everywhere, no storage, clutter. We want more space as found such a small house stressful! And loud with the kids. Our block is north facing. Next door will be a new double storey also (subdivided block) the other next door neighbour is single storey old home on a full block so this no doubt will be demolished in the future with another double storey on that side (it will definitely be double storey for ocean views). Do you have any tips for the ground floor not being dark and feeling small? We will have an open plan living kitchen dining living with bifold a opening up onto alfresco. High ceilings to this area due to split level (7-8 steps). Also ideas for energy efficiency would be great, what do we need to include? I’m new to this and haven’t even thought about that side of things just yet. Cheers Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 13Mar 26, 2020 11:24 am 'Facing' is a confusing term nowadays. It used to mean where the living areas faced, so usually the backyard. So a north facing home actually had a southern frontage. Nowadays 'facing' seems to be used interchangeably with 'frontage'. So, by 'north facing' do you mean a northern frontage? If so, it is certainly a hard orientation to deal with, in terms of energy efficiency, light & comfort. Particularly for a narrow block, even more so if you want a double garage on the street frontage. So what are your thoughts on the garage? A 6m wide double garage won't leave enough room for a proper, decent-width north facing room. A single garage will leave enough room for a decent-width north facing room. If this is the approach you take, of recommend the north facing room is an open planned living room. Although there is another option. A garage, separated from the home, with a courtyard between them. In this case the garage will not usually rob the home of northern light. All rooms across the entire front of the home will have access to northern light. Here's an example, from the northern beaches of Sydney. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ It's hard to tell, but number 18, the home on the left, has a courtyard behind the garage. So the front of the home will be night filled. While number 20, the home on the right, has a more traditional layout. The double garage will rob downstairs living areas of any northern light. Even upstairs, which has a large north facing window, will receive no direct sunshine, due to a large covered balcony. Not good. Here's a satellite image of the two homes. Number 18 now towards the right. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ There are negatives to this approach. This courtyard separating the garage & home may be overlooked by the adjoining neighbours. Also it's a bit of a walk from the garage to the front door. Not good when carrying the groceries, a young child, or in the rain. But this build is quite extreme example of a narrow build. As the frontage is only 7.5m. So let's here more about your build. Firstly, where are you located? Climate should have a very large effect on the design of a home. What's appropriate in Hobart it's certainly not appropriate in Cairns. Tell me about this slope. This could have a great influence on what you can achieve. By your description it sounds like the land slopes down towards the south. If this is the case, & it's a steep slope, this could present even more challenges regarding access to northern light. Re: Building a narrow lot home in Perth 14Mar 30, 2020 10:26 am Whoops, asking where you're located, & it's in the title of your thread 😂 If you're planning on having a second living area, I'd probably recommend you locate it upstairs, at the front of the home. So that you'll have a north facing living area that is light & receives winter sunshine. Locating your main living area towards the rear (south) of the lower level will be quite dark & cool, there's no getting around this. Eastern or western windows may help, but then you'll have more problems with summer heat, & maybe privacy. So I certainly would want to overglaze the eastern & especially western sides. One way to get light downstairs here would be to have a void or open staircase. I'm not usually a fan of these, as they make it impossible to control the flow of heat (which will travel upstairs). But maybe in this case it's not such a bad idea, possibly better if it can be zoned with a door. If the staircase is linked to the upstairs north facing living area it will help light the downstairs even more. Thanks again for this information. If you do hear anything different, would be great to know 4 8242 So it looks like we finally have some movement on site! Definitely later than expected, but I'll take any progress at this point. I'll drop by over the weekend to get… 5 27694 dimensions on your original plan are inconsistent and with accurate dimensions (including site plan, upstairs and down) i could make a proper scale drawing with furniture… 3 7515 |