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Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 2Feb 03, 2020 8:22 pm Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 4Feb 04, 2020 8:07 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 8Feb 04, 2020 9:56 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 9Feb 04, 2020 11:43 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 11Feb 04, 2020 1:05 pm Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 12Feb 04, 2020 2:34 pm Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 13Feb 04, 2020 2:46 pm building-expert Looking at it from consumer point of view, draftsperson is there to assess your requirements and then offer compliant solutions, not to sell you something you don't want. It should be a staged process where initial design options are submitted for your choice. Then the selected design is further developed for secondary approval and so on until you sign off on final package including all plans specifications and the form of building contract. Then it is submitted to Building Surveyor for a building permit. Once building permit is issued you then get builder's prices. I don't know where your wheels fell off. Either do I? It seems as though all drafters around me expect contract signed and payment in stages and we were asked to sign agreement to this before seeing first concept plan so we had already been signed into a contract. This was the case with at least 4 different people we spoke to so assumed this was the norm? That is in where the problem exists that we were locked into a contract before seeing what we were working with. And from concept one it has been way off the mark, there was some improvement but then further decline now to the point of absolute refusal to make requested changes. From a consumer perspective I am extremely unhappy and I don't want to buy something I am not happy with and further to that is copyrighted so I can't even go and get someone else to edit or fix it. I feel very trapped in this situation that much is sure. Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 14Feb 04, 2020 5:48 pm This will never be ok and you will never be happy with it and may become disastrous for you if you continue through the build. You may have to take a bitter pill now and exit, to save you from taking three bitter pills later. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 15Feb 09, 2020 11:46 am ReneeN Either do I? It seems as though all drafters around me expect contract signed and payment in stages and we were asked to sign agreement to this before seeing first concept plan so we had already been signed into a contract. This was the case with at least 4 different people we spoke to so assumed this was the norm? That is in where the problem exists that we were locked into a contract before seeing what we were working with. And from concept one it has been way off the mark, there was some improvement but then further decline now to the point of absolute refusal to make requested changes. From a consumer perspective I am extremely unhappy and I don't want to buy something I am not happy with and further to that is copyrighted so I can't even go and get someone else to edit or fix it. I feel very trapped in this situation that much is sure. A pre-start service agreement is standard, but it should only outline expectation of services provided being inclusions, exclusions and a scope of works provided by the designer. It is not a contract with set pricing, unless it clearly outlines what will be provided and for what price. Usually, in this case you would be entitled to 3 sketch plan revisions based around an approved concept deign. Not sure about your location, but this is a link to the BDAV in Victoria and their guide to service agreements and scope https://www.bdav.org.au/services-provided-by-building-designers From the outside looking in, it appears that the issue arises from 2 points. -1: A gap in agreement/understanding of the concept phase and design phase (not technical related but more to function/spatial/aesthetic) -2: A lack of experience on the Designers behalf relating to certain construction types. (FWIW we all have to start somewhere and you get basic/vague exposure to many types in training/school but in Vic its focused on timber frame cladded/BV Something else to remember is some requests wont comply with codes, but that be explained at the time of refusal. Similarly we can often reject some requests as the actual delivery won;t work based on experience, agin it should b explained. StructuralBIMGuy ReneeN I just don't know how to progress without losing a lot of money already spent with this designer and potentially ending up with another who is just as hopeless! Arghhhh When selecting a designer/architect don't get sucked in with fancy 3D presentations and rendered images they may look real but without the engineering, compliance, quants, data , costs, checks, etc.... they could be fake. Most of the projects I get now are reverse engineering other home designs in order to bring them closer to reality...love the irony 1. Check the designers project portfolio, focus on 3D BIM data, compliance and proofs,etc 2. Get contours, geotech reports upfront..avoid surprises later 3. Buy the sketch design and own copyright, then you can choose how to proceed with all the information/Data 1, Focus on 3d BIM?? Really? for a single detached dwelling, or even a bank of 10x townhouses?? I would suggest that then number of Architects and Designers who would have this level of detail in the back end is <10 Aus wide. I agree that its a great thing to strive for, but unless you're set up for it, its a massive undertaking with little value to the client 2. Absolutely agree. You should ideally liaise directly so that if you change Designer, you can provided the survey data immediately, rather than having to request it again. 3. Unfortunately, this is an expensive option. The Copyright/IP is ultimately the Designers livelihood and you could pay 10x the charge of the sketch fee or more, for something that you may not use, or at best case, use once. Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 16Feb 10, 2020 2:51 pm CF Design ReneeN Either do I? It seems as though all drafters around me expect contract signed and payment in stages and we were asked to sign agreement to this before seeing first concept plan so we had already been signed into a contract. This was the case with at least 4 different people we spoke to so assumed this was the norm? That is in where the problem exists that we were locked into a contract before seeing what we were working with. And from concept one it has been way off the mark, there was some improvement but then further decline now to the point of absolute refusal to make requested changes. From a consumer perspective I am extremely unhappy and I don't want to buy something I am not happy with and further to that is copyrighted so I can't even go and get someone else to edit or fix it. I feel very trapped in this situation that much is sure. A pre-start service agreement is standard, but it should only outline expectation of services provided being inclusions, exclusions and a scope of works provided by the designer. It is not a contract with set pricing, unless it clearly outlines what will be provided and for what price. Usually, in this case you would be entitled to 3 sketch plan revisions based around an approved concept deign. Not sure about your location, but this is a link to the BDAV in Victoria and their guide to service agreements and scope https://www.bdav.org.au/services-provided-by-building-designers From the outside looking in, it appears that the issue arises from 2 points. -1: A gap in agreement/understanding of the concept phase and design phase (not technical related but more to function/spatial/aesthetic) -2: A lack of experience on the Designers behalf relating to certain construction types. (FWIW we all have to start somewhere and you get basic/vague exposure to many types in training/school but in Vic its focused on timber frame cladded/BV Something else to remember is some requests wont comply with codes, but that be explained at the time of refusal. Similarly we can often reject some requests I would suggest that then number of Architects and Designers who would have this level of detail in the back end is <10 Aus wide. I agree that its a great thing to strive for, but unless you're set up for it, its a massive undertaking with little value to the client 2. Absolutely agree. You should ideally liaise directly so that if you change Designer, you can provided the survey data immediately, rather than having to request it again. 3. Unfortunately, this is an expensive option. The Copyright/IP is ultimately the Designers livelihood and you could pay 10x the charge of the sketch fee or more, for something that you may not use, or at best case, use once. Your assessment from outside looking in would be spot on. But all of the pre start service agreements I was given all included outlined work and prices and a contract for me to sign before seeing a concept design. A few I spoke to would not even discolse a price guide before sending a full blown contract for me to sign with all the costs outlined. Maybe I just called the wrong places. The website you have linked seems very thorough I guess the designer has said they will cover all those things but with loss of confidence in their ability I don't feel as comfortable letting that happen. So from your perspective where do I stand as a consumer if I can't have copy right of the plans and/or the designer refuses to work with what I want? Like do I actually have to pay for a plan that is nothing like what I wanted/asked for it to be, and I can't take elsewhere to get fixed due to copyright? Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 17Feb 10, 2020 3:17 pm I feel like the options you have are dependent on how much you have paid and what that means to you(as in $5k could next to nothing or quite a lot) It also depends on what stage you're at. From the sounds of it, you're still in between design development stage and potentially construction drawings stage. Taking one designers IP and modifying it is fraught with danger, unless you get a release to use the design and modify as required. My opinion is that it is often better to start again as it can be difficult to resolve some issues that exist within an existing design without spending a lot big time doing so. You regularly spend the same time from a fresh approach. What state/area are you located in? I can recommend a couple big places depending bon locale. An idea on your costs bao far would also help, but I don't expect you to disclose it Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 18Feb 10, 2020 3:25 pm CF Design I feel like the options you have are dependent on how much you have paid and what that means to you(as in $5k could next to nothing or quite a lot) It also depends on what stage you're at. From the sounds of it, you're still in between design development stage and potentially construction drawings stage. Taking one designers IP and modifying it is fraught with danger, unless you get a release to use the design and modify as required. My opinion is that it is often better to start again as it can be difficult to resolve some issues that exist within an existing design without spending a lot big time doing so. You regularly spend the same time from a fresh approach. What state/area are you located in? I can recommend a couple big places depending bon locale. An idea on your costs bao far would also help, but I don't expect you to disclose it I am in NSW and we haven't actually paid anything yet however from my review of the contract I would expect we are about $3000 deep as we have plans for costing estimates (which is where the issues have come up when we have shown them to our builders for an idea of price) but not final lodgemebt construction plans yet. I like the floor plan and it's taken us since October to get here and we had hoped to build this year so starting over is a scary thought!! Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 19Feb 10, 2020 3:50 pm Again, from the outside. $3k is nothing when related to the overall cost of building a house, especially a custom home. Having been through a re development of an existing house to new home (knockdown/rebuild or however you wish to term it) I can only say that I wish we had taken more time planning and I would have spent another $50k on getting some things right/better in hindsight. Professionally, once the design is done and signed off, there is no excuse for gaps in the drawing content, especially if the same person has done the design. I see a lot of designs from Architects who don't have relevant registration and cannot provide drawings for permits, and the issues with a lot of them are a lack of construction knowledge and not being able to resolve issues without major rework. This also means changes to planning permits and expensive amendments. I can't help with NSW referrals but check out the Building Design Association Australia and use their lookup to your options. https://www.bdaa.com.au/ Re: Difficult draftsperson advice needed 20Feb 10, 2020 3:56 pm CF Design Again, from the outside. $3k is nothing when related to the overall cost of building a house, especially a custom home. Having been through a re development of an existing house to new home (knockdown/rebuild or however you wish to term it) I can only say that I wish we had taken more time planning and I would have spent another $50k on getting some things right/better in hindsight. Professionally, once the design is done and signed off, there is no excuse for gaps in the drawing content, especially if the same person has done the design. I see a lot of designs from Architects who don't have relevant registration and cannot provide drawings for permits, and the issues with a lot of them are a lack of construction knowledge and not being able to resolve issues without major rework. This also means changes to planning permits and expensive amendments. I can't help with NSW referrals but check out the Building Design Association Australia and use their lookup to your options. https://www.bdaa.com.au/ Thank you so much Hi All, I engaged a tradie to install concrete retaining wall 600-800mm high over 32 meters in Victoria. Sleepers are 200*75*2000 mm installed over 17 steel posts. I… 0 6924 Building Standards; Getting It Right! Don't think they are designed for double brick. WA has a particular way of building and unfortunately that's the way a large amount of sills are finished. 3 7022 Versaloc is a mortarless besser block system that still needs a properly engineered footing. 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