Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15206Oct 25, 2019 6:27 am Manhattan52 Thanks, I understand your position and appreciate your desire to sit on the fence regarding liquidated damages in Wisdom’s Contracts. PeterJess Hi, Do you think a fair and reasonable amount of liquidated damages would be $200 per working day? What should customers push Wisdom Homes for? I reckon if Wisdom Homes are confident their CS & SS teams, trade contractors and QA process are strong then they would have little risk committing to the contract build time with real financial consequence if they don’t deliver. Industry data indicates a typical $500,000 house like those Wisdom Homes builds would normally take about 26 weeks to complete. This fairer liquidated damages amount of $200 / working day could be an excellent selling benefit for Wisdom to demonstrate their confidence they can deliver a quality build on time, and distinguish themselves against the other less capable builders in the current highly competitive market. What do you think? Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15208Oct 25, 2019 9:32 am Norfolk @Manhattan52 Thanks, I understand your position and appreciate your desire to sit on the fence regarding liquidated damages in Wisdom’s Contracts. PeterJess Hi, Do you think a fair and reasonable amount of liquidated damages would be $200 per working day? What should customers push Wisdom Homes for? I reckon if Wisdom Homes are confident their CS & SS teams, trade contractors and QA process are strong then they would have little risk committing to the contract build time with real financial consequence if they don’t deliver. Industry data indicates a typical $500,000 house like those Wisdom Homes builds would normally take about 26 weeks to complete. This fairer liquidated damages amount of $200 / working day could be an excellent selling benefit for Wisdom to demonstrate their confidence they can deliver a quality build on time, and distinguish themselves against the other less capable builders in the current highly competitive market. What do you think? Norfolk, we need our construction lawyer to clarify this, but my understanding is the liquidated damages can't be a penalty, but rather has to be a realistic estimation of delay costs which are done up front. I stand to be corrected but I believe you can include land holding costs, interest etc. In my opinion hell will freeze over before a project home builder agrees to a realistic LD number! Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15210Oct 25, 2019 4:10 pm SejaeD Norfolk @Manhattan52 Thanks, I understand your position and appreciate your desire to sit on the fence regarding liquidated damages in Wisdom’s Contracts. PeterJess Hi, Do you think a fair and reasonable amount of liquidated damages would be $200 per working day? What should customers push Wisdom Homes for? I reckon if Wisdom Homes are confident their CS & SS teams, trade contractors and QA process are strong then they would have little risk committing to the contract build time with real financial consequence if they don’t deliver. Industry data indicates a typical $500,000 house like those Wisdom Homes builds would normally take about 26 weeks to complete. This fairer liquidated damages amount of $200 / working day could be an excellent selling benefit for Wisdom to demonstrate their confidence they can deliver a quality build on time, and distinguish themselves against the other less capable builders in the current highly competitive market. What do you think? Norfolk, we need our construction lawyer to clarify this, but my understanding is the liquidated damages can't be a penalty, but rather has to be a realistic estimation of delay costs which are done up front. I stand to be corrected but I believe you can include land holding costs, interest etc. In my opinion hell will freeze over before a project home builder agrees to a realistic LD number! I think I post about this before but here it is again. I did try to negotiate this item on the contract, which state it is $40 per day unless stated otherwise". The answer was 'not agree' I do believe the $40 is a bit low however, there did not agree to ANYTHING we asked. On the other hand, if Liquidated Damage (LD) is a bit too high they will probably rush (no regards to quality) to finish the job on time and avoid paying LD. Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15211Oct 25, 2019 6:49 pm malypetu Hi Guys, Does anybody know how much extra it cost to add sliding doors to each wardrobe? I understand they can/can't have a mirror added too. Cheers I picked up the "Display Home Options Price List" today from the new Manhattan 34 at Marsden Park. Mirror robe upgrades as listed below "Provide 3 Slimline framed sliding doors to built in robe in lieu of standard hinged doors" $750 "Provide 2 Slimline framed sliding doors to built-in robe in lieu of standard hinged doors" $500 Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15212Oct 26, 2019 5:32 am WisdomHomes Hi Mark, May we now have the Wisdom Homes view on potential liquidated damages changes and some innovation in your contracts. Do you think a fair and reasonable amount of liquidated damages would be around $200 per working Day. I reckon if Wisdom Homes are confident your CS & SS teams, trade contractors and QA process are strong then they would have little risk committing to the contract build time with realistic financial compensation (not the current minimal $15 or $40 per working day) for customers if you don’t deliver. Industry data indicates a typical $500,000 house like those Wisdom Homes builds would normally take about 26 weeks to complete. This fairer liquidated damages amount of $200 / working day could be an excellent selling benefit for Wisdom Homes to demonstrate their confidence they can deliver a quality build on time, and distinguish themselves against the other less capable builders in the current highly competitive market. What do you think? Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15213Oct 26, 2019 6:22 am Norfolk What do you think? Me thinketh you get no answer. The low LD topic affects numerous home owners across a range of builders, I read one post earlier this year where someone found (well after the contract was signed) that theirs was $5 per day and another person had $10 per day. Such low amounts could be considered by the ACCC to be unfair contract terms if they were found to enable one party (but not another) to avoid or limit their obligations under the contract. It should be noted however that unfair contract terms are currently not illegal. Given the increased awareness needed by many about this subject, maybe you should consider starting a dedicated thread in General Discussion for the greater good rather than trying to draw isolated posters on this thread into conversation. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15214Oct 26, 2019 7:26 am Let’s give Mark (Wisdom Homes General Manager) the opportunity to respond from Wisdom’s perspective. He is active on this forum and Reading through his posts he seems OK, very customer focussed. I would expect him to respond. And any other members with opinions too. Wisdom is free to offer whatever liquidated damages amount in their contracts that they Consider reasonable. Innovation here could be a real game changer for Wisdom Homes marketing giving customers confidence they will deliver good quality and on time. At the moment their contract does not support this basic expectation because the ‘token’ liquidated damages amount allows Wisdom leverage to delay the build if they choose with minimal cost. They may not do this however the option is there, as noted by members of this forum discussing other builders. Delays are expensive for customers, extra rent, short term air bnb accomodation etc Most customers would not factor in the financial cost of delays and would likely be under pressure to just accept defects identified at PCI or earlier due to this. manhattan52 factored the cost of a 25% time delay into his numbers, maybe this alternative approach is appropriate for other customers? Another alternative for Wisdom may be to delete the liquidated damages clause all together from the contract. This would allow customers to pursue fair and reasonable compensation from Wisdom in the event of significant delays as long as they can substantiate their extra costs.
Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15216Oct 26, 2019 10:53 am amf139 becks81 For those of you with a void at the front window, do you have skirting on where the floor would meet the wall (only there is no floor), I’ve just noticed in the pictures of one of the display homes and it looks very odd. Is this normal? Yes. There is a skirting used in ours. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Your build is always nice to look at. Hope you’re enjoying everything about your new home. I asked my SS about the skirting and it’s not negotiable at the void and even the stairs. Expansion joint. Wisdom standard. I’m not all that thrilled but there’s nothing I can do about it. We are having a tiled feature wall to one side of the void and I forgot to ask if that will have skirting over the top (not on display so hopefully the answer will be no). Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15217Oct 26, 2019 10:55 am Norfolk Let’s give Mark (Wisdom Homes General Manager) the opportunity to respond from Wisdom’s perspective. He is active on this forum and Reading through his posts he seems OK, very customer focussed. I would expect him to respond. And any other members with opinions too. Wisdom is free to offer whatever liquidated damages amount in their contracts that they Consider reasonable. Innovation here could be a real game changer for Wisdom Homes marketing giving customers confidence they will deliver good quality and on time. At the moment their contract does not support this basic expectation because the ‘token’ liquidated damages amount allows Wisdom leverage to delay the build if they choose with minimal cost. They may not do this however the option is there, as noted by members of this forum discussing other builders. Delays are expensive for customers, extra rent, short term air bnb accomodation etc Most customers would not factor in the financial cost of delays and would likely be under pressure to just accept defects identified at PCI or earlier due to this. manhattan52 factored the cost of a 25% time delay into his numbers, maybe this alternative approach is appropriate for other customers? Another alternative for Wisdom may be to delete the liquidated damages clause all together from the contract. This would allow customers to pursue fair and reasonable compensation from Wisdom in the event of significant delays as long as they can substantiate their extra costs. Just my 2 cents I hope he doesn’t answer because that’s going down a never ending rabbit hole. Maybe that’s a different thread you can start across all builders as delays don’t seem to be an issue that comes up ( well not much that I’ve seen anyway) Personally I love seeing everyone’s updates wether it be through admin, CQ or on site Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15218Oct 26, 2019 12:42 pm Norfolk Let’s give Mark (Wisdom Homes General Manager) the opportunity to respond from Wisdom’s perspective. He is active on this forum and Reading through his posts he seems OK, very customer focussed. I would expect him to respond. And any other members with opinions too. Wisdom is free to offer whatever liquidated damages amount in their contracts that they Consider reasonable. Innovation here could be a real game changer for Wisdom Homes marketing giving customers confidence they will deliver good quality and on time. At the moment their contract does not support this basic expectation because the ‘token’ liquidated damages amount allows Wisdom leverage to delay the build if they choose with minimal cost. They may not do this however the option is there, as noted by members of this forum discussing other builders. Delays are expensive for customers, extra rent, short term air bnb accomodation etc Most customers would not factor in the financial cost of delays and would likely be under pressure to just accept defects identified at PCI or earlier due to this. manhattan52 factored the cost of a 25% time delay into his numbers, maybe this alternative approach is appropriate for other customers? Another alternative for Wisdom may be to delete the liquidated damages clause all together from the contract. This would allow customers to pursue fair and reasonable compensation from Wisdom in the event of significant delays as long as they can substantiate their extra costs. Hi Norfolk, I think you have misjudged my participation and involvement on this thread, and even more so, the unique value that this thread has provided to Wisdom Customers since its inception. Building a home is a complex journey with numerous decisions that have to be made on the way. This thread has typically been used by Wisdom Customers to help support each other, whether that be by sharing their experience, seeking feedback on design options or colour selections and more. I believe that this thread plays a very positive role in assisting Wisdom Customers via peer experience, even when that might highlight some negative feedback. My participation is largely as a silent observer. Where I see a customer expressing distress or frustration, I will typically reach out to them privately to share my contact details and offer my assistance to help get them back on track. I do not use this thread for promotion or marketing purposes and if you believe I will use it to discuss Wisdom policy and contractual terms then you are mistaken. With all due respect, at the moment the agenda of this thread is being dominated by you (someone who is not a Wisdom Customer) about issues that are industry-wide and not specific to Wisdom. I would encourage you to take your concerns to another thread, or even start one of your own, where you can talk about these issues to people who are using a broad sample of builders. It is not a requirement to be a Wisdom Customer on this thread and of course anyone can participate, but I would encourage you to allow space here for Wisdom Customers to continue to use it for the positive benefits that it has always provided to them. It is best that Wisdom Customers set the agenda here - not you or me. [PS if any Wisdom Customers (or potential customers) ever want to talk to me directly, you can just PM me]. Regards, Mark Live Your Way Re: Building with Wisdom Homes 15220Oct 26, 2019 1:43 pm Manhattan52 Norfolk Let’s give Mark (Wisdom Homes General Manager) the opportunity to respond from Wisdom’s perspective. He is active on this forum and Reading through his posts he seems OK, very customer focussed. I would expect him to respond. And any other members with opinions too. Wisdom is free to offer whatever liquidated damages amount in their contracts that they Consider reasonable. Innovation here could be a real game changer for Wisdom Homes marketing giving customers confidence they will deliver good quality and on time. At the moment their contract does not support this basic expectation because the ‘token’ liquidated damages amount allows Wisdom leverage to delay the build if they choose with minimal cost. They may not do this however the option is there, as noted by members of this forum discussing other builders. Delays are expensive for customers, extra rent, short term air bnb accomodation etc Most customers would not factor in the financial cost of delays and would likely be under pressure to just accept defects identified at PCI or earlier due to this. manhattan52 factored the cost of a 25% time delay into his numbers, maybe this alternative approach is appropriate for other customers? Another alternative for Wisdom may be to delete the liquidated damages clause all together from the contract. This would allow customers to pursue fair and reasonable compensation from Wisdom in the event of significant delays as long as they can substantiate their extra costs. Just my 2 cents I hope he doesn’t answer because that’s going down a never ending rabbit hole. Maybe that’s a different thread you can start across all builders as delays don’t seem to be an issue that comes up ( well not much that I’ve seen anyway) Personally I love seeing everyone’s updates wether it be through admin, CQ or on site manhattan52 Thanks for you 2 cents, I appreciate your fast response. Me too! Personally I also enjoy seeing everyone’s updates. I have learnt a lot from you as well as from the other active thread members' updates over recent years. I look forward to yours and others future contributions, the positive, the negative as well as challenging. The benefits of the ’Building with Wisdom Homes’ public thread here are twofold, as I personally see it: Firstly, it allows the existing active customer members to share their updates and experiences building with Wisdom, supporting and helping each other along the way. This is really nice, and I feel with your stewardship will continue. Secondly, this public forum and thread provides prospective customers with an opportunity to research Wisdom Homes as a builder. Assuming these people are also considering other builders, their online research may include 5 – 10 potential local builders. Therefore there are a lot more potential customers viewing this thread than the active customer members as noted above. My gut feel suggests up to 10 times or more: say, ratio of 10 active members to 100 passive online researchers. The Homeone forum and thread (as well as Product Review and others) have significant influence in shaping the consumers’ perceptions of Wisdom’s brand and operational capability, as Wisdom Homes well knows per: https://www.accc.gov.au/public-register ... up-pty-ltd To complement the regular building updates and peer support, discussions about items such as; Wisdom Homes’ company culture, their service and final product quality, the house design and inclusions, the contract terms, negotiating the final tender price etc. are of significant value to these people currently researching, including some of my friends considering Wisdom, making a big decision with their life savings. The more information and insights they have, the better for them and for Wisdom's continuous improvement initiatives. This sharing should be encouraged. What do you think? Can someone please offer some advice? Im DESPERATE. Because I'm completely and utterly exhausted. 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