Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Another defective house story 63Jun 06, 2019 9:11 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Another defective house story 68Jul 28, 2019 10:21 pm I’ve been informed to get a quote from either a Quantity Surveyor or builder for a knock down rebuild of my home. Also informed I could get a quote from both. Any advantages one over the other? Re: Another defective house story 69Aug 14, 2019 5:42 am Harts I’ve been informed to get a quote from either a Quantity Surveyor or builder for a knock down rebuild of my home. Also informed I could get a quote from both. Any advantages one over the other? The saga continues. The 4 plumbers who each completed their separate plumbing works all completed non compliant work. Self-certification is a joke. They will all receive notices to return to fix, let’s wait and see how many do. One will be extremely costly. Advice to new home owners, if you suspect there are issues, ensure you get it sorted within 6 years as you can make a claim on the plumbers insurance. This insurance is different to Builders Warranty Insurance which is junk insurance. Re: Another defective house story 70Aug 14, 2019 8:52 am Harts The saga continues. The 4 plumbers who each completed their separate plumbing works all completed non compliant work. Self-certification is a joke. They will all receive notices to return to fix, let’s wait and see how many do. One will be extremely costly. The regulatory bodies are also a joke. If plumbers or any other tradesperson are found to have performed blatant non compliant, sub standard work, they should be brought before a tribunal, fined, suspended and made to undergo reassessment and pass before being allowed to return to work under a monitored one year probationary license. If that happened as it should, the workmanship and adherence to compliance would improve dramatically, I am absolutely sure about that! There should also be a thorough audit of all work they have done over the previous year and rectification offered to all previously affected home owners. Blatant non compliance/bad workmanship is rarely a one off situation. Note that work can however be substandard yet compliant and what's more, the Australian Standards in part allow this. As an example and because you also have non compliant stormwater drainage, for urban housing blocks under 1,000 sq m and as per AS/NZS 3500.3.5.5, sub surface stormwater pipe design "shall be determined according to local practice and experience (without specific design calculations)". Plumber's self certification loves that one and is why (cheaper) 90mm pvc stormwater pipe is often used instead of larger 100mm pvc Drain Waste Vent (DWV) pipe even when the drainage volume for a 1:20 Average Recurrence Interval requires by calculation the larger 100mm pipe. 90mm pvc stormwater pipe is measured as an outside diameter, the internal diameter is 86.2mm which has a volume of 5.8 litres per metre. The stronger 100mm pvc DWV pipe has an outside diameter of 110mm and an internal diameter of 104mm which gives a volume of 8.5 litres per metre, a volumetric increase of 46%. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Another defective house story 71Aug 14, 2019 7:34 pm SaveH2O Harts The saga continues. The 4 plumbers who each completed their separate plumbing works all completed non compliant work. Self-certification is a joke. They will all receive notices to return to fix, let’s wait and see how many do. One will be extremely costly. The regulatory bodies are also a joke. If plumbers or any other tradesperson are found to have performed blatant non compliant, sub standard work, they should be brought before a tribunal, fined, suspended and made to undergo reassessment and pass before being allowed to return to work under a monitored one year probationary license. If that happened as it should, the workmanship and adherence to compliance would improve dramatically, I am absolutely sure about that! There should also be a thorough audit of all work they have done over the previous year and rectification offered to all previously affected home owners. Blatant non compliance/bad workmanship is rarely a one off situation. Note that work can however be substandard yet compliant and what's more, the Australian Standards in part allow this. As an example and because you also have non compliant stormwater drainage, for urban housing blocks under 1,000 sq m and as per AS/NZS 3500.3.5.5, sub surface stormwater pipe design "shall be determined according to local practice and experience (without specific design calculations)". Plumber's self certification loves that one and is why (cheaper) 90mm pvc stormwater pipe is often used instead of larger 100mm pvc Drain Waste Vent (DWV) pipe even when the drainage volume for a 1:20 Average Recurrence Interval requires by calculation the larger 100mm pipe. 90mm pvc stormwater pipe is measured as an outside diameter, the internal diameter is 86.2mm which has a volume of 5.8 litres per metre. The stronger 100mm pvc DWV pipe has an outside diameter of 110mm and an internal diameter of 104mm which gives a volume of 8.5 litres per metre, a volumetric increase of 46%. SaveH2O, I totally agree with the fines etc. Until this happens, non-compliant work will continue and houses will suffer. The consumer is the one that ends up paying. All they need to do is fix there defective work and take a photo and send to the regulator to show they have. What sort of regulation and penalty is that? It's like the term 'deemed to satisfy', deemed to satisfy who? Themselves and the Building Surveyor who ticks the boxes to continue getting more work from the builder? When did that AS come into effect or has it always been there? No surprise I have majority 90mm pvc pipe and 100mm down the driveway, even though I have a letter from the Engineer to the builder stating a detention system was not required and reduce the pipe to 90mm pvc within the property. Also reduced pits to 300 x 300mm. Re: Another defective house story 72Aug 14, 2019 9:20 pm Harts It's like the term 'deemed to satisfy', deemed to satisfy who? Themselves and the Building Surveyor who ticks the boxes to continue getting more work from the builder? Deemed To Satisfy (DTS). The National Construction Code (NCC) is a 3 part document comprising of the Building Code of Australia (BCA) which is Parts 1 & 2 and the Plumbing Code of Australia (PCA) which is Part 3. The NCC is a performance based document, this means that the performance requirements of the NCC must be met but the NCC does not specify how this must be done. This is to allow for the introduction of new techniques and materials provided that those new techniques and materials satisfy the NCC's performance requirements. At the basic level, the NCC is the primary document which calls up Australian Standards as DTS solutions. If there is a conflict between the NCC and the AS, the NCC has hierarchy because it is the primary document. A combination of the NCC and AS can be used. On the same hierarchy level as AS are Performance Solutions. Performance Solutions need to be certified by an industry expert as satisfying the performance requirements of the NCC and many builders now include Performance Solutions into the contract. It should be noted that many certified Performance Solutions do not meet the AS or manufacturer's requirements. If there is a problem in the construction that cannot be rectified by a NCC or AS method, a Performance Solution often needs to be certified to affect a fix. The NCC can also be overruled by local and State regulations even though the NCC is a national code. Some of these interferences are just plain ridiculous but don't get me started on examples of those! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Harts When did that AS come into effect or has it always been there? I have the AS/NZS 3500.3 2003 edition and it is in there. As to when it was first introduced, I don't know. It has to be remembered that AS have no legal standing unless they have either been legislated or drawn into a contract. On 1 May 2011, the PCA was introduced into the NCC as volume 3. Prior to that, Victoria used the Plumbing Regulations which adopted the PCA in 2008 (2004 edition). Victoria has always excluded the BCA as a DTS roof drainage solution, using only the AS. Section 5 of AS/NZS 3500.3 deals with SURFACE DRAINAGE SYSTEMS - DESIGN. Two methods can be used to design drainage systems, the general method and the nominal method. The general method requires calculations whereas the nominal method only requires local practice and experience. Another problem with the Standards is the consultation of charts within the Strandards that show slopes and flow rates of different size pipes that show true diameters whereas most pipes are nominal sizes. For example, the internal volume per metre of a true 90mm internal diameter pipe is 6.36 litres per metre whereas the internal volume of a nominal 90mm pvc stormwater pipe with a true diameter of 86.2mm is 5.84 litres per metre. In other words, plumbers are basing compliance on smaller pipes from figures given for larger pipes! A true 90mm internal diameter pipe has 9% more internal volume than the commonly used SN2 (stiffness rating) 90mm pvc stormwater pipe which has 1.9mm thick walls and an outside diameter of 90mm. EDITED: Typos. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Another defective house story 73Aug 14, 2019 9:29 pm SaveH2O Harts It's like the term 'deemed to satisfy', deemed to satisfy who? Themselves and the Building Surveyor who ticks the boxes to continue getting more work from the builder? Deemed To Satisfy (DTS). The National Construction Code (NCC) is a 3 part document comprising of the Building Code of Australia (BCA) which is Parts 1 & 2 and the Plumbing Code of Australia (PCA) which is Part 3. The NCC is a performance based document, this means that the performance requirements of the NCC must be met but the NCC does not specify how this must be done. This is to allow for the introduction of new techniques and materials provided that those new techniques and materials satisfy the NCC's performance requirements. At the basic level, the NCC is the primary document which calls up Australian Standards as DTS solutions. If there is a conflict between the NCC and the AS, the NCC has hierarchy because it is the primary document. A combination of the NCC and AS can be used. On the same hierarchy level as AS are Performance Solutions. Performance Solutions need to be certified by an industry expert as satisfying the performance requirements of the NCC and many builders now include Performance Solutions into the contract. It should be noted that many certified Performance Solutions do not meet the AS or manufacturer's requirements. If there is a problem in the construction that cannot be rectified by a NCC or AS method, a Performance Solution often needs to be certified to affect a fix. The NCC can also be overruled by local and State regulations even though the NCC is a national code. Some of these interferences are just plain ridiculous but don't get me started on examples of those! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Harts When did that AS come into effect or has it always been there? I have the AS/NZS 2003 edition and it is in there. As to when it was first introduced, I don't know. It has to be remembered that AS have no legal standing unless they have either been legislated or drawn into a contract. On 1 May 2011, the PCA was introduced into the NCC as volume 3. Prior to that, Victoria used the Plumbing Regulations which adopted the PCA in 2008 (2004 edition). Section 5 of AS/NZS 3500.3 deals with SURFACE DRAINAGE SYSTEMS - DESIGN. Two methods can be used to design drainage systems, the general method and the nominal method. The general method requires calculations whereas the nominal method only requires local practice and experience. Another problem with the Standards is the consultation of charts within the Strandards that show slopes and flow rates of different size pipes that show true diameters whereas most pipes are nominal sizes. For example, the internal volume per metre of a true 90mm internal diameter pipe is 6.36 litres per metre whereas the internal volume of a nominal 90mm pvc stormwater pipe with a true diameter of 86.2mm is 5.84 litres per metre. In other words, plumbers are basing compliance on smaller pipes from figures given for larger pipes! A true 90mm internal diameter pipe has 9% more internal volume than the commonly used SN2 (stiffness rating) 90mm pvc stormwater pipe which has 1.9mm thick walls and an outside diameter of 90mm. With so many Standards, Codes, State and local government differences and top that off with self-certification, no wonder the building industry is failing. Re: Another defective house story 74Aug 14, 2019 9:34 pm Self regulation has left the lunatics in charge of the asylum. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Another defective house story 75Jan 16, 2021 8:49 pm Update: My home is to be demolished. I have significant structural damage and it is no longer safe to live in. An 8 yr old home needs to be demolished because of absolute negligence. The regulators need to start regulating and not just token. The housing industry is booming and non compliance is rampant. Unfortunately for me and others going through this, it is way too late for anything to be done. My neighbour cleared an area to prepare for the demolish and I was appalled what was found. So much for formwork, they used the existing fence the two years later fell down due to pressure. At least they used plastic. I will post these pictures up and lets have a game of spotting the defects!! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Another defective house story 76Feb 04, 2021 9:59 am Harts Update: My home is to be demolished. I have significant structural damage and it is no longer safe to live in. An 8 yr old home needs to be demolished because of absolute negligence. The regulators need to start regulating and not just token. The housing industry is booming and non compliance is rampant. Unfortunately for me and others going through this, it is way too late for anything to be done. My neighbour cleared an area to prepare for the demolish and I was appalled what was found. So much for formwork, they used the existing fence the two years later fell down due to pressure. At least they used plastic. I will post these pictures up and lets have a game of spotting the defects!! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ What a crack in the slab! I'm sorry for how long this has dragged out for -thankfully, you received a positive outcome. What do you mean by "they used the existing fence"? Do you mean they built the house against it? Re: Another defective house story 78Feb 04, 2021 1:31 pm Hey Harts. Glad to hear your nightmare is coming to an end. Who ended up paying for the rebuild? Are you out of pocket for just legal fees? Re: Another defective house story 79Feb 04, 2021 4:14 pm Lisa06 Harts Update: My home is to be demolished. I have significant structural damage and it is no longer safe to live in. An 8 yr old home needs to be demolished because of absolute negligence. The regulators need to start regulating and not just token. The housing industry is booming and non compliance is rampant. Unfortunately for me and others going through this, it is way too late for anything to be done. My neighbour cleared an area to prepare for the demolish and I was appalled what was found. So much for formwork, they used the existing fence the two years later fell down due to pressure. At least they used plastic. I will post these pictures up and lets have a game of spotting the defects!! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ What a crack in the slab! I'm sorry for how long this has dragged out for -thankfully, you received a positive outcome. What do you mean by "they used the existing fence"? Do you mean they built the house against it? Yes, Lisa06, they didn't use formwork for the slab for the garage, they used the fence as the formwork. You can see it in this picture of the indents of the fence. Great brick work too. Interesting how the Building Surveyor approved this as one of the mandatory inspections is to inspect before the slab is poured. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ G'day @Ashington Homes, thanks for your reply. The material is Versilux Ceiling Lining and Trimmer is negative detail trimmer. 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