Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Aug 30, 2018 8:45 pm Our garage wall and kitchen/dining wall is our boundary along the RH side of our build. The adjacent property to the right sits approx 500ml higher than our ground level. We have no drainage away from footings along this wall and despite all efforts so far, the Building Surveryor has approved the build for Cert of Occupancy. The slab footing has been strengthened along this wall but engineers footing layout states that the owner needs to monitor the drainage. Questions.. How does one monitor the drainage? We have already had pools of water along this wall during the build. What do we do about this? Do I get another Independent Engineer to look over the area? I just don’t understand how this can comply with any building standards! There is no where for that water to go. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 4Sep 02, 2018 8:02 pm Yeah, try and backfill with compacted clay or clay plus roadbase , something non permeable, then grade it away to slope towards the neighbours. This will create a spoon drain and hopefully water will fall to the street. I think that's the cheapest option and you need to monitor for termites and keep water flowing away. My neighbours decided to build a fence so it makes my side dark and dingy along my garage wall. Stupid me paid half too to be a nice neighbour Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 6Oct 03, 2018 10:51 pm I am sure owners of property are responsible for adequate drainage and can be prosecuted for reckless discharge onto neighboring land?? Especially if damage occurs?? Order of things for investigation might be Estate developer, then council, then state government and then police to file a nuisance complaint and then prosecute criminally or civil. OR: Get an engineering report to show how overland flow will compromise your dwelling plus a remedy to fix the drainage and take the report to your neighbous. Ask to go 50/50. Might be a simple solution that a good landscaper can implement. Good luck Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 7Oct 04, 2018 9:09 am A waterproof membrane really needed to be installed while there was access. Drive around your area and look for a similar situation to your own and talk to the affected owners. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 8Oct 04, 2018 9:16 am SaveH2O A waterproof membrane really needed to be installed while there was access. Drive around your area and look for a similar situation to your own and talk to the affected owners. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 9Oct 04, 2018 10:10 am There are various brush and spray on sealers of which the Blackjack liquid rubber brush on is one. There is even a product called Liquid Rubber. The crux of the situation as I see it in this case is that the adjoining land is 0.5 m higher than (I assume) the site cut level which owner406 has called "our ground level". If it is the site cut level being below the natural ground level and not the adjoining property natural ground level being raised after owner406 built, then owner406's builder would have been aware of the height differences and so should have abided by the Part 2.2 Damp and Weatherproofing requirement in the National Construction Code (NCC). If this was required, then compliance has not been met and it is wrong for the Building Surveyor to pass it. With the adjoining land being 0.5 m higher, is the house and garage wall being used as a retaining wall? Surely not! I also note that owner406 is in Victoria but there is no indication as to when the contract was signed. The Victorian Building Authority states on their website "Legislation introduced on 1 September 2016 prevents the builder from appointing the private building surveyor. The appointment of the private building surveyor must be made by the owner or an agent of the owner other than the builder." The building surveyor in this instance would appear to be in the builder's pocket if the provisions within Part 2.2 Damp and Weatherproofing were required but ignored. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 10Oct 10, 2018 8:06 pm SaveH2O There are various brush and spray on sealers of which the Blackjack liquid rubber brush on is one. There is even a product called Liquid Rubber. The crux of the situation as I see it in this case is that the adjoining land is 0.5 m higher than (I assume) the site cut level which owner406 has called "our ground level". If it is the site cut level being below the natural ground level and not the adjoining property natural ground level being raised after owner406 built, then owner406's builder would have been aware of the height differences and so should have abided by the Part 2.2 Damp and Weatherproofing requirement in the National Construction Code (NCC). If this was required, then compliance has not been met and it is wrong for the Building Surveyor to pass it. With the adjoining land being 0.5 m higher, is the house and garage wall being used as a retaining wall? Surely not! I also note that owner406 is in Victoria but there is no indication as to when the contract was signed. The Victorian Building Authority states on their website "Legislation introduced on 1 September 2016 prevents the builder from appointing the private building surveyor. The appointment of the private building surveyor must be made by the owner or an agent of the owner other than the builder." The building surveyor in this instance would appear to be in the builder's pocket if the provisions within Part 2.2 Damp and Weatherproofing were required but ignored. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Thank you for your reply. I have brought up so many standards with them and also the Building Surveyor. You are correct about the RBS, unfortunately we signed the contract before knowing about this legislation and therefore we are with the Builders recommended surveyor. I have added an image to show the area in question. The builder would like to rectify by constructing a spoon drain and retaining wall on the neighbouring property. Inspector says this doesn’t make the area compliant. VBA technical advice says this is an ok outcome and perhaps we should run with it to avoid the legal road. Do you think there is any way the Builder would need to knock down and rebuild the wall to compliance? Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 12Oct 10, 2018 8:51 pm You have handled this perfectly, I reckon you won't have any issues with the spoon drain and retaining wall. Good outcome I think. Well done! Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 13Oct 10, 2018 11:49 pm If you signed the contract after 1 September 2016 and the builder acted as your agent, the builder has acted illegally and the builder would have known this. It is also an offence for a Building Surveyor to accept the appointment from a builder. There were very good reasons why this legislation was brought in...see link below. https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... iofcr.html owner406 The builder would like to rectify by constructing a spoon drain and retaining wall on the neighbouring property. Inspector says this doesn’t make the area compliant. Where is the boundary, will there be a fence and has the boundary been officially surveyed? The neighbour's land is higher but is this the natural ground level? The photo suggests that it is. The main problems are two fold..... 1. A retaining wall should be on your land because your house is on the site cut and the higher land must be retained on your side. The builder cannot construct a retaining wall on a neighbouring property without their permission and it would take a heck of a lot of goodwill from the neighbours to permit this. There would also need to be some provision for drainage between the retaining wall and the garage. 2. The neighbour most probably would want to have a path down that side of the house and if it is an impermeable surface, then it will slope towards your property. The drainage can be done and the water contained on the neighbour's side but what about the rainwater that pools between the path's edge drain and the garage wall? A path clearly cannot be sloped to the bottom of the garage wall due to the height difference between your site cut and the neighbour's natural ground level plus an impermeable path on the neighbour's side will be higher again. You can seal the garage wall easily enough but retaining the neighbour's land is the problem. You would not want the land levelled against the garage wall but the neighbour should not be expected to suffer disadvantage due to the errors of others he has nothing to do with. Have you discussed the situation with your neighbour? Depending on where the boundary is, the neighbour might be receptive to you paying for landscaping down that side if it was to incorporate a small acceptable retaining wall or maybe you could make an offer for the required strip of land if this was possible. This current situation is not good for the neighbours either but giving up use of part of their land would effectively entail a large monetary loss to them. You have mentioned an inspector. Is this the building inspector who works with the building surveyor or a private building consultant who does inspections? What does he/she suggest? owner406 VBA technical advice says this is an ok outcome and perhaps we should run with it to avoid the legal road. The neighbour would effectively be giving you part of their land and any work on their land requires their permission. Your builder seems to be ignoring this very basic fact. owner406 Do you think there is any way the Builder would need to knock down and rebuild the wall to compliance? Do the plans show a retaining wall? You really need to know where the boundary is. Have you checked your plans? It would be quite involved to knock down the wall, it isn't that simple but it may be necessary.. There have been photos on Homeone that show paths with a gap of several cm between the side of a driveway or path and a neighbouring wall. Most if not all of the photos that I have seen have had a drop between the path and wall and their situation was similar to yours but the drops were not as deep from memory. The last one I saw was only a few weeks ago but I have no memory of the thread that it was in, all I remember was a question being asked about the feasability of making the bottom of the gap into a drain. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 14Oct 11, 2018 12:36 pm SaveH2O If you signed the contract after 1 September 2016 and the builder acted as your agent, the builder has acted illegally and the builder would have known this. It is also an offence for a Building Surveyor to accept the appointment from a builder. There were very good reasons why this legislation was brought in...see link below. https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... iofcr.html owner406 The builder would like to rectify by constructing a spoon drain and retaining wall on the neighbouring property. Inspector says this doesn’t make the area compliant. Where is the boundary, will there be a fence and has the boundary been officially surveyed? The neighbour's land is higher but is this the natural ground level? The photo suggests that it is. The main problems are two fold..... 1. A retaining wall should be on your land because your house is on the site cut and the higher land must be retained on your side. The builder cannot construct a retaining wall on a neighbouring property without their permission and it would take a heck of a lot of goodwill from the neighbours to permit this. There would also need to be some provision for drainage between the retaining wall and the garage. 2. The neighbour most probably would want to have a path down that side of the house and if it is an impermeable surface, then it will slope towards your property. The drainage can be done and the water contained on the neighbour's side but what about the rainwater that pools between the path's edge drain and the garage wall? A path clearly cannot be sloped to the bottom of the garage wall due to the height difference between your site cut and the neighbour's natural ground level plus an impermeable path on the neighbour's side will be higher again. You can seal the garage wall easily enough but retaining the neighbour's land is the problem. You would not want the land levelled against the garage wall but the neighbour should not be expected to suffer disadvantage due to the errors of others he has nothing to do with. Have you discussed the situation with your neighbour? Depending on where the boundary is, the neighbour might be receptive to you paying for landscaping down that side if it was to incorporate a small acceptable retaining wall or maybe you could make an offer for the required strip of land if this was possible. This current situation is not good for the neighbours either but giving up use of part of their land would effectively entail a large monetary loss to them. You have mentioned an inspector. Is this the building inspector who works with the building surveyor or a private building consultant who does inspections? What does he/she suggest? owner406 VBA technical advice says this is an ok outcome and perhaps we should run with it to avoid the legal road. The neighbour would effectively be giving you part of their land and any work on their land requires their permission. Your builder seems to be ignoring this very basic fact. owner406 Do you think there is any way the Builder would need to knock down and rebuild the wall to compliance? Do the plans show a retaining wall? You really need to know where the boundary is. Have you checked your plans? It would be quite involved to knock down the wall, it isn't that simple but it may be necessary.. There have been photos on Homeone that show paths with a gap of several cm between the side of a driveway or path and a neighbouring wall. Most if not all of the photos that I have seen have had a drop between the path and wall and their situation was similar to yours but the drops were not as deep from memory. The last one I saw was only a few weeks ago but I have no memory of the thread that it was in, all I remember was a question being asked about the feasability of making the bottom of the gap into a drain. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I have added photos before construction started. I feel the initial plans/reports from the engineer are incorrect. There is no retaining wall in the plans. Both homes are built by the same company. The adjacent home began construction before ours and has had additional fill to the site. The Boundary is the wall. It runs approximately 11m along the boundary. The neighbour has agreed to the rectifications on their property, that is not an issue. I feel though that we can not monitor the area being not on our property, which is a requirement on our engineering plans. If there ever was an issue with the slab or moisture, I would 100% guarantee that we would not be able to claim under warranty, as they would state we have not monitored the area properly. The retaining wall will have an AG Drain beside it. We are using an Independent Building Inspector who has stated this as a defect since frame stage. The Building Surveyor for the job seems the area compliant. I have been made aware of the legislation you have included about appointing a Building Surveyor. As I understand, because we have signed the contract, that was us accepting them as the RBS. (From the VBA) I will look into this further though because you can through the VBA get the RBS on the job changed. Our Independent Inspector is of the position that the wall needs to be rebuilt to compliance. They have suggested we contact a Construction Lawyer and issue Breach of Contract if it is not recitified in 2 weeks. I just don’t think we have the funds to do this. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 15Oct 11, 2018 2:27 pm owner406 I feel the initial plans/reports from the engineer are incorrect. There is no retaining wall in the plans. Both homes are built by the same company. The adjacent home began construction before ours and has had additional fill to the site. The neighbour has agreed to the rectifications on their property, that is not an issue. If the height difference is the result of the fill to the neighbours site, then the builder should have built a retaining wall on the neighbour's side at the time of construction and this should have been on their plans. I assume that the builder will be paying for the wall on the neighbour's property and it is your best possible result. You possibly/probably should have waterproofing on the garage wall and the surface between the retaining wall and the brick wall finished so that it doesn't pool water. Waterproofing is covered in the NCC which can be downloaded free of charge. Because of narrow blocks and/or houses now often built on the boundary, many property owners now face the situation where there is a narrow gap between a retaining wall and the structure as I have previously mentioned. Those constructions are invariably passed as compliant but inspection of the narrow gap can be very difficult as you have realised. At least you appear to have a good relationship with your neighbour. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 16Oct 17, 2018 7:20 pm SaveH2O owner406 I feel the initial plans/reports from the engineer are incorrect. There is no retaining wall in the plans. Both homes are built by the same company. The adjacent home began construction before ours and has had additional fill to the site. The neighbour has agreed to the rectifications on their property, that is not an issue. If the height difference is the result of the fill to the neighbours site, then the builder should have built a retaining wall on the neighbour's side at the time of construction and this should have been on their plans. I assume that the builder will be paying for the wall on the neighbour's property and it is your best possible result. You possibly/probably should have waterproofing on the garage wall and the surface between the retaining wall and the brick wall finished so that it doesn't pool water. Waterproofing is covered in the NCC which can be downloaded free of charge. Because of narrow blocks and/or houses now often built on the boundary, many property owners now face the situation where there is a narrow gap between a retaining wall and the structure as I have previously mentioned. Those constructions are invariably passed as compliant but inspection of the narrow gap can be very difficult as you have realised. At least you appear to have a good relationship with your neighbour. Yes the neighbours are very nice, I hope for our sake they stay in the home as long as we do. As I suspect also, their site was filled higher than what was expected and the builder has not retained this. So if by saying this to the adjacent home owner, they could just be accepting what should have been done it the first place. I find it strange that the builder has taken it on themselves to construct this retaining wall, when they have continually denied there is a surface drainage defect. Also the building surveyor says there is no defect so, they aren’t actually required to do anything. I have engaged the services of an Independent Engineer to assess the initial engineers plans and prepare a report of the rectifications. We will also push for the wall to be waterproofed and for the building company to monitor the ag drain and spoon drain which will run along the house. No one I have spoken to, aside from our Independent Building Inspector, thinks that we will get a different outcome by going further in the process, eg construction lawyer, domestic building disputes, VCAT. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 18Oct 17, 2018 10:04 pm It's a wise move to engage an engineer to look at the plans, will the neighbours also make their plans available to your engineer? Re the building surveyor and the legislative change on 1 September 2016, if you did sign the contract after this date, the Building Surveyor should be reporting to you. Has this been happening? The builder is not allowed to act as your agent in appoimting the Building Surveyor. I am assuming that the neighbours signed their contract prior to 1 September 2016. Do you know whether the same building surveyor oversaw both constructions? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 19Oct 18, 2018 7:49 pm SaveH2O It's a wise move to engage an engineer to look at the plans, will the neighbours also make their plans available to your engineer? Re the building surveyor and the legislative change on 1 September 2016, if you did sign the contract after this date, the Building Surveyor should be reporting to you. Has this been happening? The builder is not allowed to act as your agent in appoimting the Building Surveyor. I am assuming that the neighbours signed their contract prior to 1 September 2016. Do you know whether the same building surveyor oversaw both constructions? I know the same Building Surveyoring Company would be doing the 2 houses. I can’t at this stage be sure of the individual. Is the issue around the appointment of the Building Surveyor, and the passing of the defective work an issue of conduct that I could take to the VBA? Thank you for taking the time to offer input into this issue. Re: Zero Boundary - Drainage 20Oct 18, 2018 10:44 pm If your contract was signed after 1 September 2016, the builder has acted illegally as your agent. Given that the builder has initiated action to construct the retaining wall on the neighbour's property where it should have been constructed at the start because of the fill, the attitude of the Building Surveyor is probably more of academic interest only now but the engineer's report will be interesting. You need to wait on this. I hope that they sort out the drainage and waterproofing to satisfaction so you can focus on relations remaining amicable with the builder. The neighbours almost certainly would not have been aware that there needed to be a retaining wall on their property. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. You must be new to the internet. You're also the only person anyone here has ever heard of washing their garage wall. I hate to break it to you, there are insects and… 6 4867 I am building in claymore NSW and this is shown in the building envelope plan. … 0 10049 thanks Chippy, i hope they have applied sealer but i am doubt to be honest, so i am gonna do this job after handover. 8 16307 |