Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! Re: Frames without timber noggings? 22Aug 13, 2017 10:35 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frames without timber noggings? 23Aug 13, 2017 10:50 am 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Frames without timber noggings? 25Aug 15, 2017 9:51 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frames without timber noggings? 29Aug 25, 2017 10:41 am Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frames without timber noggings? 32Aug 26, 2017 7:55 pm Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frames without timber noggings? 34Aug 31, 2017 10:23 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Frames without timber noggings? 35Sep 05, 2017 12:41 am 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Frames without timber noggings? 36Sep 05, 2017 10:45 am Tim65 Thats nonsense, mate ".... hence my comment about a independent inspector especially if the op has limited construction knowledge You don't need a engineer to quote As1684 requirements , if the builder knows things are getting checked it might keep him on his toes" The codes are quite simple if the builder follows AS1684 then it will be compliant... no need for an Engineer If it's non-compliant then you better find an engineer to check & sign off on the structure according to AS1720 Timber Structures, where it will have to be certified equivalent or better than what's specified in AS1684. OT, The Battlers & Punters shouldn't be forced to pay extra for basic compliance, that advice should be free Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frames without timber noggings? 37Sep 06, 2017 12:27 am Hi everyone, Sorry for the absence for a while - due to work, family and other commitments - and thanks very much for all the comments and views. I think this discussion has raised a few very interesting issues - such as what is defined as acceptable industry practice, and how far can we take innovative methods and "green" and "alternative" solutions, and what is deemed compliant and by whom??? As a person with very little experience in the industry, I find it difficult to get my head around what is and what isn't acceptable, and how that's determined. There also seems to be a lot of gaps in the interpretation of BCA and other standards, and the industry seems to be mostly "self" administered/governed. I have read through relevant bits of AS1684 and done a lot of research on this. The issue I see is that the nogging bits in the code don't specify whether they need to be "traditional" timber noggings or whether they can be metal "ribbon noggings" or other alternative solutions. It also doesn't state what may be other alternative nogging systems (as stated in earlier post, I did find a research paper published by a Melbourne uni years ago on the various noggings systems used and their stress-bearing effectiveness, which mentioned that builders in Australia did apparently use metal ribbons noggings at some stage in history). So if the metal straps system is considered equivalent in structural terms as the traditional timber noggings, then are they deemed compliant? No one seems to know... As a layperson, I guess I can only take comfort in the fact that: a) the frame fabricator has assured me that those frames are complaint (although I have not sighted any paperwork to this effect), and b) we have managed to get some traditional noggings put in as additional support (although we need to pay). As an update on costs: so far the builder has not issued the variation on the noggings and we are hoping that given not the whole house had to be done, the final bill will be less than the $2K estimated. Let's see. As a consumer, I can say, though, that I feel gypped about not be told of the "innovative/alternative" solution frames that were to be used by the builder at any stage throughout the quotation/contract negotiation/build process. But that might just be a "communication" and/or business ethics issue with my builder. It doesn't definitively rule out the fact that the frames used may (just may) be deemed compliant to code. I still feel gypped, though.. It seems that so far no one else has come across a similar framing system or these issues, so hopefully this discussion would provide some poor bugger, like me, in the future with some useful advice and insights. Cheers, Newbie2017 Re: Frames without timber noggings? 38Sep 06, 2017 3:21 am Newbie2017 I think this discussion has raised a few very interesting issues - such as what is defined as acceptable industry practice, and how far can we take innovative methods and "green" and "alternative" solutions, and what is deemed compliant and by whom??? As a person with very little experience in the industry, I find it difficult to get my head around what is and what isn't acceptable, and how that's determined. There also seems to be a lot of gaps in the interpretation of BCA and other standards, and the industry seems to be mostly "self" administered/governed. Hi Newbie. I know that it is a bit to take in. I'll try to precise it to the basics. At the compliance level as seen in the BCA hierarchy pyramid that I posted in post 23, you will see that Prescriptive Solutions, otherwise known as Deemed To Satisfy (DTS) and Australian Standards, are on the left and Performance Solutions aka Alternative Solutions are on the right. Being on the left or right means nothing, they are both on the same level of hierarchy. There are no definitive "Green Solutions" but a Performance Solution can obviously be green by personal definition. To be certified as compliant, a Performance Solution must be proven by an industry expert to satisfy the BCA's performance requirements which are above it on the BCA hierarchy pyramid. Because your frames possibly/probably don't satisfy the Australian Standards, they have to be certified as a Performance Solution and have current certification. If not, then they are not compliant because they don't meet the code unless something that covers their compliance is also mentioned in the BCA or else referenced in the BCA to another Standard. Note that I haven't checked the BCA and framing is also well outside my area of expertise but many things are also mentioned within the BCA. You can download the 3 Part NCC free of charge, framing is covered in Part 2. The builder should provide you with proof of compliance should you ask for it. Being told that the metal straps are greener is BS, sequestering carbon is greener than using metal straps and pine is a plantation timber. The BCA can be vague and not always interpretation defined in its attempt to be flexible. This allows opportunistic interpretations that has brought it into public criticism on different occasions, I have previously posted comments on Homeone about criticisms made in the NSW Parliament several years ago about the BCA during the high fronted guttering fiasco and there have been questions asked about its role in the current non compliant building cladding investigation. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Frames without timber noggings? 39Sep 06, 2017 12:15 pm newbie2017 "As a layperson, I guess I can only take comfort in the fact that: a) the frame fabricator has assured me that those frames are complaint (although I have not sighted any paperwork to this effect), and b) we have managed to get some traditional noggings put in as additional support (although we need to pay). As an update on costs: so far the builder has not issued the variation on the noggings and we are hoping that given not the whole house had to be done, the final bill will be less than the $2K estimated." Quote You've been ripped on so many levels..If I were you I would be lodging a complaint with the Dept of Commerce/ Fair trading in your state. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frames without timber noggings? 40Sep 06, 2017 1:55 pm BIMguy (and others), if you want to show a quote from another post, just click Reply at the bottom left and the post will be inserted in your reply box. You can delete the text that you don't want. If you want to reply to more than one passage, just click on Copy in the top right hand corner of the other poster's pasted text that appears in the box you are replying to and that box will appear as many times as needed. To remove any excess boxes, just press the X next to Copy in the boxes you want removed. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. This certainly doesn't look good. I would be engaging with an independent inspector to have a look at this. As for the unscheduled site visits, most builders are quite… 1 22060 Elvis has left the building... The site supervisor quit after 2 month on the project. I guess he was just instructed to bark at people, but didn't like when he was… 26 18648 Hi, I contracted a Builder to do a Garage to Bedroom + ensuite conversion (Class 1a), the Builder engaged the Certifier and Engineer and received BDA from the Certifier… 0 1980 |