Problems with new apartment buildings

Liliana · Apr 02, 2017 8:22 am

The latest episode of Background Briefing on ABC Radio National is all about problems owners of new apartments are facing with trying to get defective work rectified. A familiar story but worth listening to if you are in the market for an apartment on the east coast of Australia any time soon. Accompanying article on the ABC Website:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-31/l ... om/8403744

StructuralBIMGuy · Apr 02, 2017 10:34 am

As a Structural Engineer that does building repairs..some of those apartments will be modern day slums in less than 30 years

1960sModernistHome · May 07, 2017 7:47 am

StructuralBIMGuy

As a Structural Engineer that does building repairs..some of those apartments will be modern day slums in less than 30 years

I think you're being extremely generous saying 30 years... I'd say less than 10. The vast majority of these new apartment buildings are poorly designed, even more poorly built. The fixtures, fittings and finishes are usually cheap no-name brands (often bad Chinese or Taiwanese copies of popular products).

They are usually procured with a "design and construct" contract so the builder is responsible for the detailed design and the construction. There is very little independent oversight to ensure the design is good and that the construction is of a good quality. The buildings are inspected and certified by building certifiers and consultants who are engaged and paid by the builder (massive conflict of interest).

They are basically cheap project homes stacked on top of each other.

These things will be requiring significant maintenance every 5 - 10 years. I feel for anyone who's been sucked in to buying them as a long term investment, they'll be forking out for maintenance and repairs a lot.

The purchasers have paid for a BMW and been given a Chery. The developers, and to a lesser extent the builders, are laughing all the way to the bank.

StructuralBIMGuy · May 07, 2017 10:16 am

It is a good business model for the Builder/Developer
to, tap into clients dream, build, sell. maintain, service & certify the client's assets..unfortunately not good for the customer
who is forever forking out.
This practice has crept in from the automotive industry
LOL.... come in spinner.
The Asian Investors don't know they are buying a chery.
OT It is also good business for clients to have, engineering, details,Specifications, non-compliance & codes issues solved & costed before they enter into prelim Contracts or hand over deposits on any type build, Caveat Emptor

1960sModernistHome · May 07, 2017 4:10 pm

I would NEVER buy off the plan unless I had received all of the detailed drawings for my house/apartment and seen the specifications for all of the equipment, appliances, fixtures, fittings and finishes (and have signed copies of these documents annexured to the sales contract).

It blows my mind that people will sign away three quarters of a mill on an apartment based on a few pretty pictures in a sales brochure and sign a contract written by the developer's lawyers to ensure that it is heavily weighted to their advantage.

No way in the world would I ever do that.

Joker · May 18, 2017 1:16 pm

We have had a huge amount of apartments built along geelong water front, priced from 550,000 up to 3.5 million, would love to have witnessed what's underneath , something not enough consummers are interested in until it's too late.

Joker · May 18, 2017 6:54 pm

I would make the developer responsible for building guarantee and tighten up the cheap imports their using, maybe a 3 month live in before full payment or 10 percent held back for first 18 month's and repairs come from this.
From what I see, builders hate council checking their work and much prefer it's done privately as they get away with much more this way.

StructuralBIMGuy · May 19, 2017 9:13 am

Joker

From what I see, builders hate council checking their work and much prefer it's done privately as they get away with much more this way.

...which leads to not compliant buildings requiring at worse Engineering repairs & certification
It's a vicious cycle & Certified Structural Repairs is becoming a boom industry
It's best for battlers to avoid these projects altogether

building-expert · May 19, 2017 1:01 pm

I have already written an article on cost stripping on this forum.
Developers will get architectural drawings to get them past planning permit, then the race to the bottom begins (cost cutting) via substitution+ omission until is all cut to the bone and nothing of value remains.
Cut out architect supervision and cut back to the bone builder's site supervision and what will you have?
The only risk developers have is falling off their wallet and hurting themselves.
There is no protection for the purchasers and no punishment for those found guilty of shortchanging customers
Typically a fully ducted air conditioning system will be replaced by 3 stand alone cheap heat pumps ( developer pockets the change) and the purchaser is none the wiser.

Yes purchasers will be fooled by glossy photos and buy off the plan or sign a building contract thinking less than buying shoes. Just the way it is.

1960sModernistHome · May 21, 2017 10:37 pm

StructuralBIMGuy

...which leads to not compliant buildings...
It's a vicious cycle & Certified Structural Repairs is becoming a boom industry

Yep, ever since the rise of the "design and construct" contract method 6 or 7 years ago, we have been spending more and more of our time on forensic engineering, writing engineering reports, and providing expert witness testimony for just that...
They took the design and supervision responsibility away from the experts (architects, engineers) and gave it to the builder. The baggage handlers are designing the 747

SaveH2O · May 21, 2017 11:27 pm

Who is flying it?

1960sModernistHome · May 23, 2017 1:44 pm

SaveH2O

Who is flying it?

Clients (developers) I suppose... minimising build costs whilst maximising sale price of apartments.

Everyone else are the losers.

Builders And subbies are then in a race to the bottom.

By association so are architects and engineers.

Buyers get lumped with a poor quality apartment.

Body Corp starts paying the price 5+ years down the track once the poor quality building materials start needing premature maintenance and replacement.

In second thoughts, the other winner will be building maintenance companies...

SaveH2O · May 23, 2017 7:04 pm

That is a good summary. Here in Victoria, the air traffic controllers (aka VBA) are asleep on their watch which reminds me of an old joke. "I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather..... Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car."

Joker · May 23, 2017 7:36 pm

Was speaking to a local apartment maintenance manager, I said your apartments, are they structurally has bad has most in nsw, Victoria, he replied, there one of the better ones but if I had to put a percentage on how OK they are, I would say 60%,shivers I said, that's still shocking and a Don't buy warning.

1960sModernistHome · May 23, 2017 9:40 pm

SaveH2O

That is a good summary. Here in Victoria, the air traffic controllers (aka VBA) are asleep on their watch which reminds me of an old joke. "I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather..... Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car."

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy whackjob, maybe the developers have the right political connections to ensure that the regulators remain toothless tigers...

Berek · May 23, 2017 10:00 pm

And developer donations to politicians don't influence their decisions...

SaveH2O · May 23, 2017 10:20 pm

The VBA was set up under Matthew Guy's watch.

I probably shouldn't admit to this but when the Victorian Plumbing Industry Commission and the Victorian Building Commission were disbanded and the VBA was set up in their place, I actually believed that it would result in Victoria showing the way to the rest of Australia...how wrong I was.

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