Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum Re: Building an autonomous house on the far south coast 9Feb 08, 2009 6:43 pm dymonite69 Your design philosophy seems more Passivhaus than Passive solar. I like elements of both schools of thought however I have some problems with both in their 'pure' form. A hybrid of the two suited our needs, climate and site better so that's the direction we went. It is a really intresting design area and I think hybrid systems may develop as it will hopefully work well in the Australian cool temperate regions (such as where I live in Bega Valley) Our windows are commercial grade 6/13N/6 inert gas filled double glazing with clear glass on one side and Low-E, Comfort glass on the other so the R value is slightly higher than domestic stuff. We are installing cellular blinds with metallised linings to further boost R values. It is not really that cold here so optimum preformance is not totally essential (would be nice) I am losing some sleep over the framing and cold bridge issues though, steel v timber v other alternates, What do you think? dymonite69 Most of the time you don't need a huge volume of mass just for it to be spread out in large areas. We have incorporated thermal mass via the stored water in the Hydronic heating system. With water having twice the volumetric heat capacity of concrete it is very efficient, cheap, renewable etc and it is also very easy to move about the house, unlike solid thermal mass. This is an area I think needs a big rethink in general. I hear what you’re saying about the embodied energy in steel being offset against its life span, reuse, recycle values etc. I have thought about that and kind of justify its limited use in the house with those arguments (because it suits me to do so) I am a little worried about designing steel window frames ie to avoid cold bridging ?? any thoughts. Steve Re: Building an autonomous house on the far south coast 10Feb 08, 2009 8:57 pm Steve dymonite69 Your design philosophy seems more Passivhaus than Passive solar. I like elements of both schools of thought A hybrid of the two suited our needs, climate and site better so that's the direction we went. I am losing some sleep over the framing and cold bridge issues though, steel v timber v other alternates, What do you think? We have incorporated thermal mass via the stored water in the Hydronic heating system. I hear what you’re saying about the embodied energy in steel being offset against its life span, reuse, recycle values etc. I am a little worried about designing steel window frames ie to avoid cold bridging ?? any thoughts. I agree that a sensible balance of mass and insulation is the most cost-effective and practical solution. It is certainly the best one for volume building. I can't imagine anyone wanting to build a 1 foot stud wall for the insulation to fit in. Reverse brick veneer is the probably the most likely solution to high interior mass if you want to use conventional materials. Whilst hydronics is very effective, so is direct gain passive solar. Having the sunlight heating your slab is the most efficient solution doesn't involve additional components such as pipework and pumps to shift heat around. However if you can reverse cycle the hydronic then you simultaneously have a cooling solution. Geothermal hydronic is another alternative that offers a complete HVAC system. There is another thread on thermal bridging on steel frames. It is more of a collection of speculations rather than hard data. I can't find a lot of field experience or modelling that has explored this issue: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=151652 The only rough estimation would be put a thermal camera over a reasonably insulated steel framed house and see what kind of temperatures you are getting on the studwork. I think lifecycle always need to factored into energy efficiency. Demolishing and rebuilding a house prematurely also requires a lot of embodied energy. It remains to be seen whether some modern energy-efficient constructions are able to stand the test of time. Re: Building an autonomous house on the far south coast 11Feb 08, 2009 9:01 pm Steve We are installing cellular blinds with metallised linings to further boost R values. We are also using cellular/honeycomb blinds. Re: Building an autonomous house on the far south coast 12Feb 08, 2009 11:27 pm dymonite69 Whilst hydronics is very effective, so is direct gain passive solar. Having the sunlight heating your slab is the most efficient solution doesn't involve additional components such as pipework and pumps to shift heat around. However if you can reverse cycle the hydronic then you simultaneously have a cooling solution. Geothermal hydronic is another alternative that offers a complete HVAC system. A floating slab on our site would have been a really expensive and difficult proposition and would have dictated construction choices too much so it was never really an option (we did look at it). Geothermal quotes came in over $28 grand - if we did not hit rock.....an unlikely event given the hill top site covered in huge granite boulders. The hydronic systems can be set up to thermo-siphon or at least be run on low amp in line pumps- fairly low tech and low maintenance. 'Trombe' style tanks can be incorperated into hydronics (storage) providing the direct gain passive solar also. I have considered making it a reverse cycle system but I am not overly worried about cooling too much as the site is ideal for passive cooling. dymonite69 I think lifecycle always need to factor into energy efficiency. Demolishing and rebuilding a house prematurely also requires a lot of embodied energy. It remains to be seen whether some modern energy-efficient constructions are able to stand the test of time. Yes, with an average building life of only 25years the embodied energy of demolishing and rebuild should be considered as a real cost. We have taken on board a lot of cradle to cradle concepts and are building in deconstruction and component recycle capability. I do not know of any buildings in Australia (commercial or residential) that are designing and building for deconstruction? I am aiming for our building to have a life of 100+ years, some of the timber is over 80 years old and will certainly have a third (or 4th?) life after this house has finished with it. Steve Re: Hill House - far south coast 13Mar 04, 2009 10:22 am Well since my last post I have been working to make money rather than on the house but I have made a little progress, I finished the blocking between the joists.
Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I ran out of salvaged joist timber (hardwood) so I utilised some cheap treated pine for the blocking as I had sitting around and the strength is not a corncern in such short lengths. The block squared up the joists nicely and I have begun leveling the tops in prep for the flooring. Fortunatly they are only out a few mm here and there, to be expected considering it is old recycled 'shed' timber. The bracing ended up being a bugger of a job; each piece had to be cut to length, holes drilled and overlap checking out done prior to sending them away to be hot dipped (gal). It was a very slow process that took me many days of fiddling to get holes to align, checks in the correct locations etc etc....... anyway it is done. The original plan called for timber cross braces but I decided to go for the strength and longevity of hot dipped steel (25 x 5mm angle), I quite like the spider web kinda look of it also and it suits my 'wharf and store' building asthetic:? Funnily enough it ended up being cheaper to do in steel (not considering my labour though). Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ We also had our salvaged insulated glass panels delivered...all 5 ton of it. We have started getting quotes on having the window and doors frames made up, it is not nearly as exspensive as I thought it would be, so that is a pleasant suprise. So things are moving along slowly, I will be working for the next few weeks but then I have a good run of time and funds available and hope to get the roof and walls up...then it will start to look a bit like a building I hope Steve Re: Building an autonomous house on the far south coast 14Jul 01, 2009 3:43 pm Well... a few weeks worth of work turned into a few months so progress on the house has ground to a hault whilst I have been refilling the piggy bank. I have managed to get some of the decking across the front in. I purchased the decking (135 x 33mm spotted gum wharf boards) at a very good price but the downside was they came in shorter lengths (ie around 3 meters long) which meant more joins. This is slow job made slower by my desire to lap each join and avoid using double fasteners. 4 fasteners on each join would have looked messy so I cut a lap to each side of every join, this also allows a full depth of each board to sit on the joist and only two fastener are needed which reduces the potential for end splits. I glued the joins also with exterior grade PVA... Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I was happy with the finished joins despit the amount of time it took Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The finished section Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ looking the other way Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ So I have some time off this week and hope to finish the decking off. I intend to let the boards grey off rather than oiling them, I like the wharf kinda look, a little bit unslick, a nice contrast against the timbers that will be oil finish I think. Steve Re: Building an autonomous house on the far south coast 15Mar 27, 2011 11:29 pm Well,my old computer fianlly died and I seemed to have let this thread slip away but I will update on some of the progress... A change in my work situation meant I had to put off building the house and build a work studio on our farm (I will do a seperate post on that project). This took most of our money and time for a while but was essential as I need to work to pay the bills and earn the dollars to continue with the debt free house building project. In the intrim we did have a significant bit of progress, we got our solar power system fitted!!. Thanks to the goverment rebate and a local group buy we could afford a 1kw grid interactive with a 2kw inverter so we can add another 6 panels as funds become available. We are pretty chuffed with the system as it is will meet our power needs!! At 60 cents a kw it will pay for itself in less than 3 years. Since fitting of the gross meter we have been getting credits with each bill, so the addition of another kw will cover our gas. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ After the financial and time distraction of building a new studio it was nice to finally get back to building our house again. My mate Dave worked with me over a few weeks and we managed to get all the floor structure finished and all the wall frames constructed and stood. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The posts needed a bit of straightening, easy job using a 2500kg truck tie down rachet strap. I was surprise how 'plastic' the big hardwood posts are. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The site manager laying down on the job!! Whilst Dave was still helping we got onto preping the large (4800 x 240 x 45) blackbutt roof beams. The 40 odd beams needed sanding and oiling, scafold had to go up and the first row of beams went in. The steel joining brackets inside the joins made for a tidy connection Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Gotta love a big plank of blackbutt Despite a lot of rainy weather when I had the time to build (in between earning a living) we got the majority of the roof beams up. Working atop the scafolding in the rear corner of the house I was just on 8 meters up from the ground so I invested in a few safety harness and associated goodies that prevent owner builders hitting the ground and hurting themselves. I would rather never fall but it was nice to have a little added insurance. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Once I managed to fit all the roof beams, I started preparing and installing the rafters. It is a lot of surface area to prep. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The main rafters are LVLs and are over 10 meters long so presented some interesting handling issues for a solo builder (even with a helper) Total cost of these big boys was $3500 delivered, the truck had a lot of fun getting them up the steep drive and onto the site. That was before each one was cut and painted (4 coats), ahhh so much repetitive handling, the process of cutting and painting the rafters took a few days and sucked up $400 in paint... Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Weather slowed progressyet again... but I eventually managed to find 5 days to finish off the rafters and roof blocking. Had a mate from Sydney down to help me so we worked hard and got it done. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Flat bar had to be welded to get the lengths required for the cross bracing (7m long 75mm x 5mm m/s) prior to under coating it to give it some protection. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Over a few weeks I denailed, graded and preped 300 lm of recycled 4 x 2 hardwood to install as battens. The better timber was used for the exposed battens (entry deck, rear deck, ends on the side etc) these had to be planned, sanded and finished with 3 coats of Sickens before installation. The battens concealed in the ceiling cavity where just denailed and left as are. This process was long and dull but it ties in with our aim to use at least 50% recycled materials in the house, they look quite nice and it also ended up saving a few dollars at about $2.50 a meter delivered. Solo builder-man at work Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ This was about 2/3 the way through. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I finally employed my first contractor to install the aircell foil ($600) and roofing iron ($3K). He did a good deal as I provided myself as his labourer. The rain stopped for only just long enough and we managed to top out the first pavilion. I ended up ordering our doors and windows from Canberra (Queenbeyne actually) as the local guys where a bit casual and it was too much money to be casual about. In the end the window manufacturer I went with is very accomadating and was happy to work with us and our 'demands' and their work is of a really high standard. They have estimated delivery in about 2 weeks. In the end we changed our mind about the windows and went with timber frames to prevent cold bridging etc. A break in the rain allowed us just enough time to finish the roof fixing, fit the Smartflow gutters and to flash around the two posts that extend through the main roof to support the entry roof. I have made a start on cladding the walls with Blackbutt weather boards that will contrast the main galvo clading. The galvo should be here later this week hopefully. Tomorrow morning I start a whole month of building full time and have young Dave coming to help me so I expect to get a fair bit done in the month. I can only hope the weather is kinder to us. Some wonderful skies over the far south coast as the storms of the last few days clears. Our new roof stayed attached through the wind and rain Here are a few sky pics from the building site we call home. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I always think a rainbow is a good sign. Hope i covered the catch-up on progress, it is slow going but I pretty much work solo, run a buisiness, run the farm and we are trying to avoid debt by doing it as we can afford it so... onwards with determination. Steve Re: Building an autonomous house on the far south coast 16Mar 27, 2011 11:46 pm hey steve welcome back to h1 this site gets more responses and more advice and you already know i love your build and your view hehehe its ok im not stalking lol stay safe happy building Re: Hill House - far south coast 17Mar 29, 2011 11:26 pm Your property is absolutely stunning! The views look superb. Very impressed with your build so far. Our owner-builder journey - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=45187 Re: Hill House - far south coast 19Apr 06, 2011 6:06 pm Well the past week I have been pretty busy back on the tools and building. Had a few delays with deliveries, so started leveling the large recycled joists that I had fitted a while back, I thought they were pretty flat till I started running the level over them. Three days later and about 4 sets of planner blades they were flat,75 mm wide 80 year old hardwood can be stuburn. I then started fitting the floor boards (once again salvaged, thankfully they went down quite easily but I found parts in my back that I never knew could hurt. I laid about a third of the floor before the galvo cladding was delivered and gave me an excuss to stop laying floors Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I also fitted another panel of the blackbutt weather boards and fitted a bunch of trims etc to the exsposed roof beams to ensure a clean line join when the internal wall cladding is fitted. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I had been waiting on a replacement Smart-Flo gutter that was damaged during transport, it finally showed (undented this time) and I got it up and fitted, another job ticked off. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I should finish the gal wall cladding tomorrow so am hoping the windows show or it is back to flooring to kill some more time Steve Re: Hill House - far south coast 20Apr 06, 2011 6:43 pm Hi Steve, love the build. I admire a man who can build alone. As a tradesman that I used to work with told me when I was an apprentice "if you cant do it on your own, your beat". I never really understood what he meant at the time but as a tradesman I understand it well. I like to work alone and it is surprising what you can do with a little ingenuity. I love the look of your place, the use of recycled materials and galv custom orb looks great and really suits the setting. Good on you mate, I'll keep watching. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 The OP has gone The latch and striker are definitely not aligned but there was no point trying to help the OP understand that. Hence the reason they are no longer with us. 12 5678 Howdy all. I am looking for feedback on what people would do to maximise and make an area as flat as possible. 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