Roads, not sure where to post

Lorri · Nov 06, 2015 8:28 am

Hi I was reading the BAL stuff and it said if your more than a 100 meter long driveway you need a class 4c road, have googled and can't find anything on what it is and how much it costs.

We have to see if we can avoid this it sounds like it will cost big time. Where does it start from? We have access onto the property from a reserve road, if its from that road where it goes onto our land it will bee ok, but if its from the road that runs past at the bottom then that's bad.
Does anyone have any idea? Who makes those class 4c roads?

Cheers Lorri

Beetaloo · Nov 06, 2015 1:36 pm

I have a 600m driveway and am in a BAL 29 area.
My answer to your question about costs is that is cost a lot.
Your responsibility for a driveway starts from the entrance to your property.
In my council area if the council road is not up to spec, then when one builds a house, the council has to upgrade their road at their cost. They don't do it automatically, one needs to request it and make a bit of a fuss.

In my case my driveway had to be at least 4m wide, all weather, with passing lanes every 150 metres. The minimum turning radius is 12.5 metres and an all weather turn around area provided at the end suitable for a truck/fire engine to turn around. Also all weather access to your fire water storage tank is required.

These requirements also provide suitable access for delivery trucks (which is necessary to have in place before building works start.
My driveway was first scraped to remove grass/weeds etc then a layer of 32mm wet road base put down. On top of this a layer of 20mm quarry scalps .

I got a neighbour to make my access track on a do and charge basis. His cousin works in a local quarry so I got the road base at a discounted price and then paid an hourly rate for the actual site work.

I have had the fire authority out and they were impressed with access to my house and to my fire tank. They said access it was one of the best in the district.

qebtel · Nov 06, 2015 5:53 pm

Lorri

Hi I was reading the BAL stuff and it said if your more than a 100 meter long driveway you need a class 4c road,

What state are you in, and what is BAL?

Lorri · Nov 06, 2015 6:17 pm

Hi the land is in Tasmania and we haven't had the BAL done yet but it will be 19 or 29 , not sure which. Things are complicated by the fact our access is from a reserve road, we turn off the council road into a reserve road which has some Tarmac type stuff, not sure what it is, then into our driveway which is just dirt.
Cheers
Lorri

Lorri · Nov 06, 2015 6:40 pm

These are a couple of photos of the reserve road and our drive, you can see our bit of land starts where the dirt starts, the yellow is roughly where we want the house, but that might change if the cost is crazy.
Cheers
Lorri

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qebtel · Nov 09, 2015 3:11 pm

Lorri

Hi I was reading the BAL stuff and it said if your more than a 100 meter long driveway you need a class 4c road

Im guessing this is because your "entrance" slopes down onto the road, so you have to have some type of non dirt surface so runoff and vehicles wheels do not transmit soil onto the road? That kind of makes sense.

Lorri · Nov 11, 2015 2:12 am

No qebtel, anyone with a BAL rating has to have a access road into their property that can hold the weight of a 15ton firetruck in any weather. They have to be able to get on it in any weather so it can't be a crappy track like most places, gives me the pips that we have to do all this when anyone with an established house can have trees growing out of the gutters,slap bang in the middle of a forest and the crappiest track don't have to do a thing, yes I know it's for safety but if they are that worried about safety then they would make the established places take some measures at least.

Some of the things we would do regardless of whether it's law or not, but geez.
Vent over!
Cheers Lorri

qebtel · Nov 14, 2015 1:25 am

OK I finally learned that BAL is Bushfire Attack Level.

BAL requirements are but one of many rules that are applied to new builds. You cant apply new standards in a retrospective fashion, people of existing properties would be up in arms at continually having to upgrade to new standards.

Anyway I hope you find a cheap solution to your dilemna. If you're ever in dire need a firetruck , you'll probably be thankful you put in a good road.

tezzab · Nov 14, 2015 6:24 am

qebtel

BAL requirements are but one of many rules that are applied to new builds. You cant apply new standards in a retrospective fashion, people of existing properties would be up in arms at continually having to upgrade to new standards.

Sometimes BAL requirements can be applied to existing properties, depending on conditions of Planning Schemes.
If you need a planning permit for works, new shed, sometimes even just a water tank, and you're in a BMO (Bushfire Management Overlay) new BAL conditions might apply to new works, but not existing buildings.

You might plan a new water tank, your council requires that it needs a permit, then find you are possibly required to provide a proper road and an extra 10,000 litres for the Fire Service, if the letter of the law was applied. That's an extreme example of how the regs might be applied.

More likely in the case of extensions, additional buildings though. Planning Schemes can be hard to interpret, so professional advice before delving too deep into plans might be advisable in some cases. Sometimes it might be possible that your State Fire Services can provide a much simpler way to apply.

Lorri · Nov 14, 2015 9:00 am

I think fire safety is one thing they should make people upgrade to a certain point, things like cutting trees down from close to the house at least, having to have ember/gutter guards, things like that are pretty essential, its not like telling people to upgrade other things.
You think common sense would make people do things that they are able ,but it seems not.
Even though I am complaining about having to make a road I can understand that having trees cut down and having a water tank is for my benefit.
But what I cant get my head around is why enforce it when you can have houses all around you with no BAL and trees up to the house?
Cheers Lorri

cindyg7 · Nov 14, 2015 6:35 pm

I have been going crazy over BAL ratings for over a year bought my block of land in old residential to latter be told its in flame zone while the rest of the street are all established homes around 8 yrs old dont have to do a thing i will have to spend an extra 80k on the house which then over capitalises for the area very unlikly i would ever get my money back!!!!

qebtel · Nov 16, 2015 11:46 am

tezzab

qebtel

BAL requirements are but one of many rules that are applied to new builds. You cant apply new standards in a retrospective fashion, people of existing properties would be up in arms at continually having to upgrade to new standards.

Sometimes BAL requirements can be applied to existing properties, depending on conditions of Planning Schemes.

Not for previously completely and signed off work, that was my point, in response to the context of what Lorri stated beforehand.

tezzab

If you need a planning permit for works, new shed, sometimes even just a water tank, and you're in a BMO (Bushfire Management Overlay) new BAL conditions might apply to new works, but not existing buildings.

Correct, but in fact NEW building work will generally always attract the latest rules.

tezzab · Nov 16, 2015 5:44 pm

Quote:

Correct, but in fact NEW building work will generally always attract the latest rules.

Sorry Lorri for getting off topic of roads... True, A new building attracts the current rules and regs.
Depending on the State, and Local Gov't and Planning Zone, additional NEW work may or may not.
So many trips and traps govern additions, extensions, outbuildings, so very careful reading and consultation required.
Even after 3 "consultations" with local planning, I was given incorrect information, and therefore delays and extra costs.
Sometimes all looks good, till a separate clause or requirement traps you.

Lorri
In Vic the CFA require a 15 tonne all weather road, 3.5m wide with another .5m clear on either side. It's on their website. Hopefully your Sate Fire service has similar specs.

Your neighbours, with their existing situations can voluntarily upgrade their houses to be more resistant to fire. Again, CFA has details on their site. If they don't then at least you'll know your house has a better chance should there be a fire, which hopefully doesn't happen.

Lorri · Nov 16, 2015 9:02 pm

Tezzab no problem, I think that the whole system of building is bad from every point there seems to be something that can trip you up, whether its buying a house or land though to what you can do or not do. No clear plain English rules, even when you have built to the rules and the house was badly built it can still cost you thousands of dollars and sometimes no house that is livable at the end of it all, no protection for the person paying out hundreds of thousands of dollars. So much bull in it all I wonder why people even build a house. Rules on what you can even build on your own land, for instance we have 5 acres and where told that we can only build a house up to 300m2 and only have other buildings up to 80m2, which includes any sheds garages greenhouses or anything, what is it coming to where you can't put on your own land what you want.
I am not talking about in a suburb, I am on about a large property, what if we have a million acres , we still can only have the same area of buildings. The land in our area can not be subdivided smaller than 15 acres now, but still the same amount of buildings allowed.
Its all mad to me, and same with the BAL ratings, its crazy.
The drive way up to the house has to be a class4c road, which is 4 meters wide ,with 2 meters either side clear and no overhanging trees for 4 meters above the road and if its longer than a 100 meters it has to have passing bays of 6 meters long by 4 meters wide, a tuning point for the trucks with a 10 meter turning circle, or a t or y shaped road for them to back into and turn, or a driveway that goes go around in a circle. its not just a little driveway it a big road! sorry if I have rattled on about this but it sure annoys me as you can tell. A man's house is no longer their castle if you can't do it how you want.
Cheers Lorri

tezzab · Nov 16, 2015 10:22 pm

++1 there Lorri, you've pretty well nailed everything right there.

You'll have such a big road, might need to buy a truck to make the most of it.

Lorri · Nov 20, 2015 6:07 pm

Yes 6 meters wide cleared is a very big area, I haven't worked out where we will place the house on the block yet, so if the driveway is more than 100 meters long I even have to add huge passing bays to it! Just as well we got 5 acres because if the road is only a 100 meters long that is still 600m2 of land that is wasted unusable really, bigger than some peoples entire block, I wonder how they get on then, those who own a smaller block with I BAL rating?
Anyone care to say?
Cheers
Lorri

Beetaloo · Nov 20, 2015 7:28 pm

I have had to clear and cover with gravel 30 metres all around my house. This equates to 1600 sq metres or 3 standard house blocks.
Also 600 metres of driveway cleared and covered with road base and gravel. This adds another 3500 sq metres or 7 standard house blocks.
In addition add in turn-around areas and passing lanes, add another 2500 sq metres or 5 house blocks making a grand total of 15 standard house blocks that needed to be cut & filled, compacted, covered in road base & topped with gravel. Plus add in the cost of fire fighting tanks, pumps and hose reels.
Don't ask me how much this cost but it is enough to make my eyes water.

Welcome to the reality of building in the country on an acreage in a high bushfire risk areas.
This does not even consider the extra cost to build the actual house to withstand a bushfire.

If you refer to my thread you will see how the threat of bush fires is real and how close I came to losing everything last year.

Lorri · Nov 20, 2015 8:23 pm

Hi Beetaloo, how come you had to put gravel around you house? Not heard of that before, where you told you had to do it or did you want to do it?
Cheers

Beetaloo · Nov 20, 2015 9:13 pm

I have to clear 30 metres around my house in all directions of flammable material (as well as along the access tracks).
So the simplest thing to do was to cover the ground with gravel and then spray with glyphosphate whenever the grass/weeds come up.

I chose to gravel as it was quick and easy to do and it is low maintenance.

Lorri · Nov 21, 2015 7:56 pm

Hi Beetaloo, I think I will stick to just grass around the house, I think I wouldn't like to spray but it's a good idea.
Going to find out where that 100 my starts from before I would have to put passing bays. If they count the start as the road or from the entrance into our land makes a big difference. Lots to think about.
Cheers