Browse Forums Bathrooms and Laundry Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 4Dec 01, 2014 2:57 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 7Dec 01, 2014 6:07 pm 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 13Dec 02, 2014 10:25 pm Stewie D I'm wondering also that the plumber may have connected one of the bathroom fittings - shower maybe directly to the sewer line rather that through a trap to save time and money. On one of our renos we pulled the plumber up at the rough-in stage for doing exactly that. Yes, certainly not unheard of...the old 'branch short cut trick' as Max would say. The annual "Reece Plumbing Disasters" web page is always worth a look (and a laugh), they naturally enough focus on the DIYer but some registered plumbers also do some incredibly stupid things. Let's hope that the plumber with the camera was competent with his inspection. _lucinda And looking down one of the shower pipes, well, it looks pretty much like sewer sludge to me--is it possible they could do that, connect the shower directly to the sewer, and if so, wouldn't that be obvious with the snake camera? A modern shower head is deemed a low flow fixture. Unfortunately, the trap is not fully flushed by the low flow as it requires a flow rate in excess of what the shower delivers to achieve this. The best analogy I can give is when somebody tries to flush a toilet by pouring a bucket of water into the bowl and they find that it doesn't flush properly. Pressing the cistern button on the other hand gives an immediate short burst of water that has a sufficient flow rate to instigate a syphonic action...something the shower drain pipe & trap cannot achieve. To make it even simpler, just consider the fact that a shower head flowing at 9 lpm is only 0.15 lps, nowhere near enough to generate syphonics through the trap. Drainage design for low flow fixtures is archaic. The "sewer sludge" that you have visualled is probably a percolating collection of skin cells, soap scum and other organic matter that has remained on the surface because it is lighter than water. Remember, most soap is predominately comprised of tallow. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 14Dec 03, 2014 5:17 am To me from what you described it looks like a broken water seal that allows sewer gasses to come in or alternatively sewer vent in the wall is unfinished or leaking gas and or does not discharge through roof. If "Smart" wastes are not installed properly they could leak gas You should get your builder to get "Expert plumber" that specialises in sewer defects to inspect. Every week I see some incredibly stupid things done by tradies so it pay to check everything Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 15Dec 03, 2014 7:21 pm That sounds sensible, SaveH2O. The shower that smells the worst at the moment is the shower that has little use, apart from me pouring water down it every day in an attempt to make sure the pipes don't dry out, so where would the skin and soap sludge be coming from? it's coming up from somewhere, not washing down from someone having an actual shower. Thanks so much building-expert--two possibilities that we would like investigated. Don't suppose you have a branch over here. What is the best way to check for broken water seal and/or blocked wall vent? Would smoke testing be of any use? And if so, anyone know who does that in Adelaide suburbs? Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 16Dec 03, 2014 7:45 pm Unfortunately there is only one of me, they haven't cloned me yet but it's OK, if you ask around you will find a plumber that specialises in this kind of thing and a specialist will know what to look for. good luck Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 17Dec 03, 2014 10:41 pm _lucinda The shower that smells the worst at the moment is the shower that has little use, apart from me pouring water down it every day in an attempt to make sure the pipes don't dry out, so where would the skin and soap sludge be coming from? it's coming up from somewhere, not washing down from someone having an actual shower. It might be best if I explain how a toilet trap flushes. When the cistern (toilet reservoir) releases water, the fast release into the pan causes the other side of the trap to overflow with a sudden velocity that fills (primes) the initially empty pipe (shown as the trapway on Stewie's diagram) and this section of pipe is designed to promote priming. Priming the (vertical) trapway creates a syphon and this draws the water in the pipe downwards as a molecularly bonded mass. This is how the toilet pan is cleared of waste. The waste pipe's trap would flush the same way if it also had a fast inflow that facilitated priming. As is, any gunk will either stay on the immediate surface or else settle at the bottom of the trap. This matter will eventually flush from the trap as it breaks down and is carried over the weir. Just to go a bit further for some stark reality (bear with me), your 80 mm waste pipe will have an internal diameter of about 76 mm, giving it a volume of about 4.54 litres per metre (pi x r x r x h). For simplicity, let's say 4.5 litres per metre. If your shower flows at 9 litres per minute (and some of the latest water saver shower heads can be as low as 6 lpm), it would fill a 2 metre length of 80 mm pipe in 1 minute. This means that the velocity of water flowing to the top of the weir overflow as measured in mm per second is 2,000 mm (2 metres) ÷ 60 = 33.33 mm per second. This low velocity is why scum and other matter resists being flushed down the trap and then up the other side. If you look at the 'grate seals' you linked, you will notice that the vertical pipes are much smaller. This is because a smaller pipe can become 'charged' with the available low flow and this is facilitated by the large initial opening under the grate. Having the bottom of the smaller pipe below the water surface also means that the higher flow velocity will cause turbulence in the bottom of the trap and this helps flush the bottom of the trap. What it doesn't do is flush the water surface albeit there is a minor venturi effect present but the seals are also designed to prevent any odours escaping and this overcomes this deficiency. I have always shaken my head at these 'bandaids' because the regulations mandate larger pipe sizes yet these products are approved for use even though they present a substantial restriction in the regulation sized pipe! What this means is that although there is an industry recognition of a problem with the poor flushing performance of larger pipes when used with low flow fixtures and a recognition that smaller pipes improve a trap's performance, there is no attempt to just simply design a better performing system and change the regulations. The minimum size of DWV pipe is also 40 mm, another fly in the ointment. Ok, where does this leave you? First, if your seal does not enter the water, it simply acts as an odour conduit. If you want to use a grate seal, you need one that is the correct length. Did a plumber fit the one you have? Ho hum! As explained, a grate seal will not flush the top surface but out of sight - out of mind. Have you looked at the personal products that you are using. Changing to a different soap for example could make the difference. You need a good product to deodorise the pipes but to give the trap and pipes a really good flush, you need to charge the pipes. You can do this with the basins by filling the basins and then pulling the plug. It is harder to do this with the shower as you need a charged column of water to release but filling the shower base and then releasing a seal over the grate at the same time as the basin plugs are released would be an option. You could also try attacking the surface crud in the waste pipe by pouring in some Bi-Carb Soda followed by some vinegar. This is what I do at my place every month or two even though my drains don't present a problem. Hopefully, by understanding just what is happening will make your decisions easier. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 18Dec 04, 2014 7:13 am Just as an aside SaveH2O and I don't want to hijack the thread but what do you think of the American style toilets? When we were in Hawaii a few years ago I was impressed with them. A smaller bowl at the bottom - maybe 75mm - and when you flush them it is a circular motion of water that creates the syphon effect. They flushed extremely quietly due to the direction of the water entering in comparison to the thunderboxes that we seem to have ( and yes I'm talking about all the brands available here in Australia from cheapies with plastic cisterns up to the fancy pants imported models worth a few grand ). Stewie Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 19Dec 04, 2014 8:05 am SaveH2O Try some Biowish Plumbers Pre-Treat. I currently sell it at a substantial discount but I am in Vic. A smell shouldn't be coming up past the traps though. Quite often, bad smells are a result of hair dye products adhering to the pipes. _lucinda I'm pouring litres of water down each of the downpipes,..... Now...that has me stumped! Hi SaveH20 How much are you selling this for. Also is there any benefit to putting this in a water tank to keep clean? Re: Sewer smell in bathrooms 20Dec 04, 2014 11:41 am Stewie D .....what do you think of the American style toilets? I haven't studied them but they sound interesting. I looked at the older Aussie ones and the early water saver pans a while back now when people (and plumbers) were retrofitting smaller cisterns to older pans...a recipe for failure but I have never done design work in this industry segment. B STAR Hi SaveH20 How much are you selling this for. Also is there any benefit to putting this in a water tank to keep clean? They are normally about $38-$40 elsewhere for a 3 satchet box, I can post them for $32 all up. It is a run out stock. The Plumber's Pre-Treat is 100% 0rganic and biodegradable, you mix it in a bucket and wait 5 minutes for activation. It does not mask odours, it removes them. It is used in traps and drains, not water tanks. Keeping a water tank clean either refers to removing the sediment layer and/or improving the water quality. Both issues can be addressed by improving the harvesting method currently used and there are threads in the Eco Living sub forum that address these issues. The Davey Acquasafe is a good product for improving water quality but it shouldn't be necessary to use it if all else is ok. http://www.davey.com.au/at-home/whole-h ... ction.html 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. 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