Hydronic Heating - Which Brand to Choose?

MelbChick · Mar 18, 2012 3:32 pm

Hi,
We've received a few quotes for hydronic heating with different brands. Following is a list of what we have received back as choices, but it is hard to determine what is good and what is not. It would be great if any of you can provide some feedback from experience if you have used the following for your hydronic heating..

Panels:
- Delonghi
- Henrad
- Zenitherm

Boiler:
- Sime Format DGT High Efficiency Modulating Hydronic Boiler – 123Mj - (30KW)
- Baxi Luna 3 1240i boiler

Thermostat:
- Siemens Rev17
- Honeywell

Piping:
- Rehau with Armaflex Insulation 10mm thick rubber
- Fully insulated Uponor multi layer composite hydronic piping
- Emmeti Gerpex
Also, does bigger panels mean more heating capacity? Some got back to us with the same number of panels but varying (smaller) sizes than others.

Your feedback is much appreciated here.

gascha · Mar 21, 2012 10:27 am

Hi,
we're getting quotes for hydronic heating at the moment as well.

The first one (Supreme Heating) comes with a Sime Format DGT Boiler – 123Mj - (30KW) as well, not sure about the panel brand.
Rehau pipes have a good reputation in Germany.

Which companies did you chose for a quote?
We enquired with SupremeHeating, Mark Keenan (hydronic-heating.com.au) and I just sent an enquiry to melbournehydronic.com.au

Cheers, Christian

donuts9999 · Mar 21, 2012 8:09 pm

hi
looks like we are all in the same boat,im in melb and trying to work out whats good value and what isnt. all i hear consistently is to go with eurpean panels, boilers etc.
how many panels,towel rails are you both getting? im looking at 12 panels and towel rails. Who have you got the best quote from?

gascha · Mar 21, 2012 10:37 pm

Hi,
we're looking at 7 panels with individual thermostat valves, one boiler. Piping will be fitted externally and will go through the walls due to lack of underfloor space.
I've only got one quote so far (Supreme Heating) which is roughly 11k.

Who have you got quotes from?

Christian

MelbChick · Mar 26, 2012 11:34 am

We'll be using 15-17 panel and zone up different levels. Supreme Heating has given us the highest quote and the cheapest so far we received from is Ascot Heating. We obtained 3-4 quotes, which is making it more difficult to know who is using the best of the best.
Ascot Heating uses Henrad panels which is a Belgium brand and I gather they should be good.
Some of the places are not even responding back.. They must be really busy.
Will let you know who we go with but at this stage looks like Ascot Heating.

fynn · Apr 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Hi there.
Ive just had 2 quotes back to me, the best price was from a company called hydrotherm, there out in thomastown. they were recomended to me by a freind who had there house done. they were very happy with the job.
The other quote was from foster heating, there prices were pretty similar.
Another company never got back to me.
The heating is getting installed next week, cant wait!
Ive decided to go with a condensing bosch boiler after a lot of homework, they are by far the most efficient to run and bosch is a great brand.
the panels that are going in are Delongi.

MelbChick · Apr 24, 2012 6:31 pm

Thanks fynn. We also have decided to go with the delonghi panels and the bosch boiler (not the condensing one though). Good luck with your new heating..

fynn · Apr 24, 2012 6:44 pm

Thats fine, all bosch boilers are condensing boilers. they are by far the best boilers on the market.
All other boilers taht are sold in australia have been banned in the UK since the year 2000 as they are not condensing boilers.
I had the guys from hydrotherm out to my house today to do the rough in, they did a terrific job. they left everything very clean and they did a neat job under the house. 2 of the guys went under the house in the morning and never came out untill this afternoon. they definently earnt there money today.
We were also worried that they might have had to cut some floors up in a couple of rooms because the accsess was so tight but they managed to rough them in without needing to do that, as one of the young guys dug his way up there. it was a great effort and very much appreciated by us.
The panels are getting fitt of on monday, just in the nick of time i think. Ill let you know how we get on.

loosh · Jul 26, 2012 9:32 pm

Bit late on the post, but... Bosch boilers are hard to beat for quality and price, when installed internally- there are a few issue that need to be addressed regarding the external set-up. All three of the Bosch boilers available in Australia are condensing, and they require those who instal them to participate in an induction course regarding the installation and maintenance of them (great initiative!).

However, regarding the alternative boilers sold in Australia, i'm not sure if they're "by far the best". SIME, I believe the most commonly used brand of hydronic boiler in Australia, have both condensing and non-condensing boiler options (we've installed well over 400 of these throughout Melbourne- with few issues or complaints), as do Baxi (under 100 installed, but great quality)- they are both currently sold throughout Europe in mind-boggling numbers....not sure who has told you that they are all banned in Europe.

Lamborghini/Ferroli are also readily available, but I'm only familiar with the non-condensing boilers- however, the suppliers are apparently bringing the condensing options out this year.

Delonghi radiators are great too- we've tried them all, and use Delonghi 90% of the time. Size for size, they seem to have a higher heat output than most of the other brands sold in Australia- likely related to the heavier material used to make them (much heavier than other brands!). Very little difference in the appearance of all of the pressed steel radiators.

I'd suggest getting at least three quotes (up to 5, if possible) and comparing, not only the brands, but the size and heat output of the radiators included. Also, try contacting the suppliers- i.e. Hunt Heating for Delonghi radiators and SIME boilers, Automatic Heating for the Baxi range, Reece for the Bosch boilers, etc and ask them which of the installation companies using their products they would recommend.

I know all of the heating companies mentioned pretty well, Hydrotherm are good and i think have a pretty well deserved reputation. Regarding the others, its always a good idea to check the radiator panel sizing and installation details on those guys proving the cheaper quotes. We quote against them frequently and sometimes notice that quotes provide up to 15% less heating- low quotes aren't always the best ones if they don't include everything.

fynn

Thats fine, all bosch boilers are condensing boilers. they are by far the best boilers on the market.
All other boilers taht are sold in australia have been banned in the UK since the year 2000 as they are not condensing boilers.

Pulpo · Aug 06, 2012 9:46 am

loosh

they require those who instal them to participate in an induction course regarding the installation and maintenance of them (great initiative!).

Hmm go to Reece and buy a Bosch boiler, I don't think they will ask for anything except your cash.

No idea which are the best radiators or boilers, I think most are all good quality.

No matter what, it ain't cheap.

Good Luck

Pulpo

Crazyk · Apr 29, 2014 6:58 pm

Hey guys I'm getting in all my final quotes for Hydronic and two of the companies have a switched over from Immergas/delonghi to Bosch/Buderus boiler and rads respectively.

They are really pushing Bosch now saying they are far superior in technology.

Anyone out there with Bosch systems that can share their experiences?

I might add Hydrotherm are one that's switched.

rodriguez · Apr 30, 2014 10:33 pm

Hi crazyk,

Ive just finished reno'ing my house and got Hydrotherm in again (they did another one of my projects about 3 years ago).
They changed me over also after I got them to finalise the quote. A quick bit of research suggested that the Bosch boiler and panel (called Buderus overseas) were the way to go, so I felt confident to go ahead with it.
Its all installed now. As far as i can see, the panel is pretty much exactly the same as the delonghi I had previously. The boiler however is a lot quieter and seems to heat the panels faster than the Sime boiler I used to have. I know its more efficient so I'm looking forward to seeing a saving in gas!!

Crazyk · Apr 30, 2014 10:40 pm

Rod. Thanks heaps. Yeah I think I'll go Bosch.

I did notice an error in the immergas brochure.
It had 80/60 with eff 96/92

The Bosch had 80/60 eff 91

And then I was thinking the Bosch was less eff.

Then I looked at the SIME and it was 80/50 eff 92/96 or something and realised that the higher eff must be at the lower temp and figured for only 1% diff the Bosch must be just as good.

So yeah I think I'll go Bosch. I think they will have better after sales service because they have reps here but the other wholesalers are only pushing the best deals.

rodriguez · Apr 30, 2014 11:09 pm

Woops, just realised I forgot to ask what I came here for.
Does anyone happen to know where I could download the manual for the Bosch thermostat? Model FR120 I think.

Thanks in advance.

Crazyk · May 01, 2014 6:26 am

Hydrotherm don't have it?

sceen7 · May 04, 2014 7:31 pm

Hope I'm not too late joining in. I haven't really got a brand preference but would stick with the specialty European brands ... we have a Baxie Luna. What i would totally insist on is a condensing boiler. Gas is about to go up in price along the same trajectory as electricity did... an condensing boiler will pay for itself in just a few winters

Crazyk · May 04, 2014 8:39 pm

I've been thrown into a tail spin and can get an Immergas condensing boiler cheaper than the Bosch. I'll be going that way as it's still a very reputable brand.

sceen7 · May 05, 2014 3:01 pm

Crazyk

I've been thrown into a tail spin and can get an Immergas condensing boiler cheaper than the Bosch. I'll be going that way

Can I ask how much the boiler is????

Crazyk · May 05, 2014 3:04 pm

Not sure but at a guess I would think about 3200

mookschank · Jul 23, 2014 9:12 pm

Thought I should add a few Hydronic things to look at before someone starts laying the cash:-

Check the valves they are supplying, are they European (German are best IMO). Are they thermostatic? (This should be a yes for efficiency, except for the valve in the same room as the wall thermostat - this should be manual and always open).

As for piping, I didn't use PEX, but I cannot see why Rehau and similar shouldn't be a problem. I would forget any installer who is using push fit or o-ring style PEX as the seals will eventually deteriorate (that's what seals do).

Is the boiler appropriately sized for the installation? Almost all boilers in Oz used to be around 30kW and installers just install these and still mainly do. For a smaller install, a boiler will only modulate so much (down to around 20%). For example, my install was 6 radiators, (can't remember output), and a 30kW is too inefficient (too big) for this and I went for the 18kW Bosch unit. (UK sells 10, 12, 15kW etc, but we're stuck with boilers that have been tested to AU regs).

I've had no problems with the Bosch unit since new (2 yrs old). However, don't buy the Bosch 'programmer', its junk, I bought it then sold it. Get a Siemens or Honeywell, much more logical and better functioning...