Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum Re: Owner - Builders 10Jun 05, 2007 6:32 pm I reckon the project guys design in those (I don't like that ) things to make sure you will make some changes.... They really make their money on the variations. Most builders do. Get you with a low price, then make some money on the changes and fittings.
As for letting you supply your own stuff - No way!!!! It just introduces way to much risk to the project - if I am waiting on you to arrange and pay someone else to supply me - as the overall controller of the project - with some tiles or whatever and it goes pear shape, who will you blame. Overall it would the PM. And anyway - how do I know you did not buy some auction lot that was really a bunch of seconds being dumped because they failed QA testing??? If I was building, (Which I intend to one day) I'd be planning to get it to lock up stage via a reputable builder. Then I plan on finishing it off myself - be that arranging tradies & doing it myself. That way the major risks of foundations, walls etc are done quickly via an expert - in case it rains etc, and once the external walls and roof are on, the rest is not so time dependant or tradie critcal and I can shop around and get things at the rightr price / quality to suit my needs. Re the tafe course, I think that will be almost OZ wide soon. Steve Re: Owner - Builders 11Jun 05, 2007 7:27 pm It seems with BASIX, and final council inspections etc that lock-up stage doesn't really happen any more? Re: Owner - Builders 12Jun 05, 2007 9:57 pm Yak_Chat If I was building, (Which I intend to one day) I'd be planning to get it to lock up stage via a reputable builder. Then I plan on finishing it off myself - be that arranging tradies & doing it myself. That way the major risks of foundations, walls etc are done quickly via an expert - in case it rains etc, and once the external walls and roof are on, the rest is not so time dependant or tradie critcal and I can shop around and get things at the rightr price / quality to suit my needs. I'm undertaking a major owner-builder renovation and that's what I'm planning on doing. Most builders want control from start to finish and are not to keen to leave it at lock up stage due to the 7 year warranty and issues it presents. Even as an OB you still are protected at least in QLD against poor workmanship by going to the building tribunal. And after speaking to friends being through renovations they believe they could do a better job supervising trades and answering questions than a builder who is always off-site doing other jobs. Edit) and at the end of the day if the costs are the same as a project build you at least have a house that has been built to your own specifaction and of a higher build quality. Re: Owner - Builders 13Jun 05, 2007 11:08 pm I (briefly) contemplated the owner builder path but quickly decided it wasn't for me. I work for myself and charge between $80 and $110 an hour. It's much more cost effective for me to pay somebody else to manage the building process for me while I earn the cashola, especially when it would take me twice as long to do everything due to my inexperience. I think it's always important to cost your own time in the calculations ... and also opportunity costs. Personally, I'd prefer to spend time with my family & friends. ( I speak totally in first person here ... my partner was HORRIFIED at the idea of OB ... as far as he's concerned it was never an option!!)
From all of my readings/discussions/musings about owner building, it seems that in addition to at least some building know-how and the stuff the council requires you know (like OHS), you need: To be able to be available at all/odd hours (on site and on the phone) Patience Great communication skills Great negotiation skills Enough personal authority for people to take you seriously Capacity to develop a workplan, constantly revise timelines and renegotiate with all players accordingly Financial management skills Humour Toughness and understanding in equal measure Experience managing a project of some kind ... whether that be the kindergarten fete or a multi-squillion dollar building project Etc ... (I'm sure others will add more!) I guess what I'm saying is that choosing the OB path isn't just about money or quality. I suspect the people who have the most positive outcomes from OB are those who either: - Hole up in the hills and build the thing themselves with their own hands over a period of years - learning valuable skills in the process and enjoying living in something they've made themselves OR - Are very good managers of both people and processes. I'm interested that a lot of people in this discussion seem to see only two paths: big project builder or owner builder. Smaller building companies can't deliver economies of scale on everything (though they still get builders rates), but you can at least avoid some of the pitfalls associated with the corporate operators. BTW Unless something has changed radically in the last few months, in most (all??) states, there is no such thing as a statutory builders warranty to rectify quality issues ... just 'insurance' that is supposed to cover death, insolvency or disappearance of your builder. Of course, some products will have warranties that could be voided if installed by an unqualified person. But owner building isn't code for *******, so that shouldn't be an issue??! Of course, it's always worth trying to set up a warranty period in your contract with any service provider. e. Re: Owner - Builders 14Jun 06, 2007 8:29 am I think to do owner builder you really have to know what your doing. My boy has done a couple of jobs for owner builders and he hates it. Reasons are as most people have no clue. He hates that he is often left doing their work (i.e. organizing the next trade to come in and do something or fix something) so he can finish his own job off. My boy also has alot of pride for his work, so if the bricklayers are out 10mm it makes a difference to the frame and he works really hard to fix other peoples stuff ups that irritates him.
I have spoken to others about owner building and like I told them, unless you know what your doing...don't. In my case, my dad is organizing it all and I just pick what I want. I'll probably be spending almost 500k building it, using the best stuff. (e.g 2pac kitchens x2, all vanities x7, black galaxy granite benchtops = big $$), the mark up by a builder scares me. I also connections thanks to the boy and one of his builders who sees him like a son. That kitchen that I got cost me around 10k cheaper than what all the other kitchen places quoted me as the boy's builder spends over 80k a year on kitchen/vanities a year who was very nice to make a phone call for me and bring my cost right down. Owner builder is great if you know tradies, have connections (e.g te boys good mate has a cousin who works at tradelink, so all plumbing stuff at trade price). Re: Owner - Builders 15Jun 06, 2007 10:31 am Totally agree Minx & Elizabeth.
Nothing worse than someone who does not know what they are doing trying to run a project. PM'ing your own home is not an easy task. I worked with a guy who was a million dollar IT project manager and he took a year off and built his own house and said he would think twice next time. Re your list Elizabeth it's pretty concise and my owner build would be a full time job, ie stop work, build my house, back to work. And yes we must all look at where our expertise is - and use our capacity to earn where it is best used, and that may not be running a building project we are not an expert in. I have a mate who is a environmental soil and erosion consultant who earns big bucks but was doing his own gardens and running out of hours in the day. I said to him, get in a professional, tell them what you want and go earn some bucks. So now his gardens finished, he can enjoy it, and he earnt 4 times on the days the guy he was paying slaved away in his garden. Steve Re: Owner - Builders 16Jun 06, 2007 9:04 pm Thanks to everyone for their input. I also did some research and came up with a few articles:
http://www.homesite.com.au/rebuild-extend/knockdown-rebuild/new-homes-nsw/tips-and-guides/should-you-become-an-owner-builder http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/www/html/284-choosing-to-be-an-owner-builder.asp http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256EB5000644CE/page/Building+%26+Renovation-Owner-builders?OpenDocument&1=40-Building+%26+Renovation~&2=20-Owner-builders~&3=~ Makes interesting reading. Perry Hi VK, Think it's worth investing time in an Owner Builder course to equip you with basic knowledge on Australian Building Industry and its regulations. Also, I suggest… 11 25332 Hi all. Anyone know when the $11,000 limit was set in legislation for renovations in QLD? Ive been renovating for 5 years now and this was the limit back then. As we know,… 0 4915 Sorry but you have a crap builder. Probably too late now. For our last build I only spoke to builders who would allow me easy access (at no cost). I used my own sparky… 10 10666 |