Browse Forums Lighting + Lighting Design Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 282Jul 02, 2016 9:29 pm Just wondering if a led down light with a 45 degree beam angle be suitable for 3.05m ceiling and 2.6m ceiling height? or would the light projected on the ground appear "spotty" Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 283Jul 03, 2016 9:27 am richiey30 Just wondering if a led down light with a 45 degree beam angle be suitable for 3.05m ceiling and 2.6m ceiling height? or would the light projected on the ground appear "spotty" 45 degree should be fine. You would want to space them about 1.5m-2m apart if you're trying to achieve uniform illumination. But to be honest I wouldn't be too concerned about it being spotty, I'd be more focusing on ensuring you get light where it's needed. When I am designing lighting I tend to place more importance on getting light where it's needed, rather than achieving uniform illumination (except for offices, classrooms, industrial etc of course, where uniform illumination is a requirement). There is a general tendency to put symmetrical grids of downlights throughout houses, but I don't subscribe to this approach. When designing I spend time thinking about each room, where the furniture is going, which walls might have wall hangings, wardrobes or linen cupboards that need light - things like that. In a kitchen, you want the light on the cupboards and benchtop - not the floor. In a Bathroom you want the majority of light over the vanity. In a living room you want the light shining on feature walls and artwork, and over lounges/furniture for reading. Don't waste money and energy putting lights where they're not required. Spend that money on putting in higher quality of light where it is needed (quality over quantity). Just a few examples and tips for you. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 284Jul 10, 2016 3:51 pm I've done a lighting plan & hope you can advise .. The ceiling is raked & goes from 3200mm to 3800mm. We're trying to limit the number of downlights to keep the insulation as intact as possible, will use cones. On the drawing it says the ceiling height in the kitchen area is 2800mm, but I've just realised this is just the height of the cabinets, there are clerestory windows above this & the 2800 height only applies to the bit near the door and the entrance from the living room. So 2 of the 3 downlights in the kitchen would be on the raked ceiling. This sounds tricky. How could we have downlights here without the light being uneven? There is also light from the undercabinet rangehood & strip lighting but I don't think this would be enough. Do you think the 2 pendant lights in the sitting area are too close together? These will be on the sloping ceiling - what sort of wattage? The 3 downlights in the sitting area are approx 3030mm apart & on the 3200h ceiling. What would you suggest for these? The wall light in the hall could be moved further along .. or maybe an oyster type light here? The ceiling height is 2800 here. In the linen area there will be 2 cupboards to 2800mm, the first one for brooms etc & tinned goods, would an LED strip light inside be a good idea or would the pendant be enough? There are 3 outdoor LED downlights, would this be enough, 13w? The one on the left side would need to illuminate the bbq area further out. Hope you can help, appreciate it! Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 285Jul 17, 2016 4:12 pm lenarufus I've done a lighting plan & hope you can advise .. The ceiling is raked & goes from 3200mm to 3800mm. We're trying to limit the number of downlights to keep the insulation as intact as possible, will use cones. On the drawing it says the ceiling height in the kitchen area is 2800mm, but I've just realised this is just the height of the cabinets, there are clerestory windows above this & the 2800 height only applies to the bit near the door and the entrance from the living room. So 2 of the 3 downlights in the kitchen would be on the raked ceiling. This sounds tricky. How could we have downlights here without the light being uneven? There is also light from the undercabinet rangehood & strip lighting but I don't think this would be enough. Do you think the 2 pendant lights in the sitting area are too close together? These will be on the sloping ceiling - what sort of wattage? The 3 downlights in the sitting area are approx 3030mm apart & on the 3200h ceiling. What would you suggest for these? The wall light in the hall could be moved further along .. or maybe an oyster type light here? The ceiling height is 2800 here. In the linen area there will be 2 cupboards to 2800mm, the first one for brooms etc & tinned goods, would an LED strip light inside be a good idea or would the pendant be enough? There are 3 outdoor LED downlights, would this be enough, 13w? The one on the left side would need to illuminate the bbq area further out. Hope you can help, appreciate it! I'm just bumping this in case you find time to answer ... maybe too many questions! The raked ceiling makes it complicated Thanks Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 286Aug 15, 2016 1:09 pm lenarufus lenarufus I've done a lighting plan & hope you can advise .. The ceiling is raked & goes from 3200mm to 3800mm. We're trying to limit the number of downlights to keep the insulation as intact as possible, will use cones. On the drawing it says the ceiling height in the kitchen area is 2800mm, but I've just realised this is just the height of the cabinets, there are clerestory windows above this & the 2800 height only applies to the bit near the door and the entrance from the living room. So 2 of the 3 downlights in the kitchen would be on the raked ceiling. This sounds tricky. How could we have downlights here without the light being uneven? There is also light from the undercabinet rangehood & strip lighting but I don't think this would be enough. Do you think the 2 pendant lights in the sitting area are too close together? These will be on the sloping ceiling - what sort of wattage? The 3 downlights in the sitting area are approx 3030mm apart & on the 3200h ceiling. What would you suggest for these? The wall light in the hall could be moved further along .. or maybe an oyster type light here? The ceiling height is 2800 here. In the linen area there will be 2 cupboards to 2800mm, the first one for brooms etc & tinned goods, would an LED strip light inside be a good idea or would the pendant be enough? There are 3 outdoor LED downlights, would this be enough, 13w? The one on the left side would need to illuminate the bbq area further out. Hope you can help, appreciate it! I'm just bumping this in case you find time to answer ... maybe too many questions! The raked ceiling makes it complicated Thanks I'm no lighting expert but we have raked ceilings in our kitchen living rental and they have just used pendant lights at approx 2m of floor level. I'd avoid downlight on the highest side of the ceiling as the will be point less. Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 287Aug 15, 2016 2:07 pm It's going to be difficult as there will already be pendants over the island bench ... for such a small area it would be overkill to have more over the kitchen bench, but if we only had the island ones there would be a shadow over the work area (I don't think LED strip lights under the overhead cabs would be enough) These raked ceilings are more trouble than they're worth!! Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 288Aug 15, 2016 4:41 pm Our kitchen, diner, lounge is 9 x 8m Pretty much a square shape with four pendant lights in a square 2m off the walls. The one in NY kitchen doesn't create much of a shadow surprisingly. Which I think is because they are lower then normal batton lights. The four lights are just sufficient. I would probably have added one more. Have you taken your plan to a lighting shop? They can usually have some knowledge-based answers. Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 289Aug 15, 2016 8:14 pm Not sure what is NY kitchen?? Yes I've been a bit hesitant about going to a lighting shop as I thought they would want me to buy everything there but I might not want to. But they could probably give me some advice about how high a downlight can be and still be useful etc Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 290Aug 15, 2016 8:42 pm NY was a typo was suppose to say my kitchen. I would go in and say you're just after some advice on placement. If they do try and sell you anything just say you have to run it by the boss/partner. Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 291Aug 16, 2016 8:54 am Hi, sorry it's taken me so long to respond, life got in the way and haven't had a lot of spare time recently. I think your plan will work fine. Just remember that if you have high raked ceilings and you want to use downlights, you need to select downlights that have a fairly narrow beam, and are adjustable tilt. With a ceiling height in the range of 3 metres give or take, I would recommend something with about 700 lumens and a 30-40 degree beam. Note that most LED downlights in the "domestic" range that you will find at lighting retailer have an opal diffuser and have a very wide beam angle, usually 60-90 degrees. It's no secret to anyone who's read this thread that I have a hatred of these type of downlights because they cause high glare discomfort and generally don't make for a nice illuminated space. I would recommend a product similar to this http://www.versalux.com.au/products/dow ... -downlight (the adjustable version, Venice 7R KV07.03R03.3080) Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 293Aug 16, 2016 1:16 pm What I would suggest is, if you have time, start at page 1 of this thread and skim-read through it. I'm sure you will pick up plenty of tips and knowledge. also check out a few online lighting places to get an idea of your budget and what style you like. golights.com.au seems to be a pretty good one with lots of variety and different brands. I've bought a few lights for my place from there. Once you've done this, have a go at your own plan and I'll have a look at it and give you some feedback and suggestions. A few really basic tips: - Think about how you're likely to use the space - Think about which areas you just want ambient lighting levels (lounge, media, outdoor area), and which areas you need lots of light (kitchen, bathroom vanity, laundry, study) - Put thought into how you want the lights switched/grouped. Keep it simple but functional. In my house I have tried to follow a basic principle of having two levels of switching for each room/area - ambient lighting, and task/bright lighting. One of the most common mistakes I see in domestic lighting is people putting quantity over quality of light. Display homes are the worst. They put in a million cheap, glarey downlights in a grid pattern all over the ceiling. Any professional lighting designer will put their energy into the quality of light. Some tips for providing quality of light: - Place lights where you specifically need light, rather than putting them everywhere. Don’t get hung up on having symmetrical grids of downlights. Just put them where you need them. Once it’s all finished no one is going to look at them to see if they are in a grid or not. In my house the only room that has a grid of downlights is the kitchen. Elsewhere they are just installed over where they need to be, and in places to shine on artwork etc. - Select lights appropriate for the situation to focus the light where you want it. - For ambient lighting try and use indirect lighting like wall lights, tilt adjustable downlights or spotlights shining onto artwork or feature walls, uplighting onto ceiling, LED strip concealed in coffers or bulkheads, or even floor lamps - For task lighting, use downlights or pendant lights with a directional beam, rather than lights that spray light out all over the place. Also LED strip lighting underneath overhead cupboard is good task lighting for kitchens etc. Hopefully this helps you to have a go at your lighting layout. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 294Aug 17, 2016 1:13 pm 1960sModernistHome Hi, sorry it's taken me so long to respond, life got in the way and haven't had a lot of spare time recently. I think your plan will work fine. Just remember that if you have high raked ceilings and you want to use downlights, you need to select downlights that have a fairly narrow beam, and are adjustable tilt. With a ceiling height in the range of 3 metres give or take, I would recommend something with about 700 lumens and a 30-40 degree beam. Note that most LED downlights in the "domestic" range that you will find at lighting retailer have an opal diffuser and have a very wide beam angle, usually 60-90 degrees. It's no secret to anyone who's read this thread that I have a hatred of these type of downlights because they cause high glare discomfort and generally don't make for a nice illuminated space. I would recommend a product similar to this http://www.versalux.com.au/products/dow ... -downlight (the adjustable version, Venice 7R KV07.03R03.3080) That’s ok, you are giving your time & advice so you can take as long as you like! Thanks for the link to the Venice light, can you tell me if these ones would also be suitable for the area along the bottom of my drawing? It is about 10m long & is the lowest part of the raked ceiling, 3200mmh. There will be paintings on this wall & we want to illuminate them without it looking like an art gallery. There will be a protrusion along the top of the wall about 300mm deep for the box gutter. How far out from the ceiling should the downlights be, and would 3 be enough as I have them on the plan? There will also be a floor lamp. Also, in the kitchen area, a friend who has downlights said he thought 3 would not be enough, do you think 3 of the Venice would be enough? I’m hoping so as we don’t want too many holes in the insulation. We will use insulating cones in the ceiling over the top of the downlights. Thanks again for your help Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 295Aug 17, 2016 2:30 pm for illuminating walls with wallwasher or tilt adjustable downlights, a good rule of thumb is to put them about 25%-30% of the ceiling height distance off the wall. For example, if you have 3200 ceiling height, put the downlights about 800-1000mm off the wall, then aim them back towards the wall. If it's just a lounge/circulation type area, I think 3 would be fine. I think 3 of them in your kitchen would be ok. Probably not a bad idea to put in some LED strip lighting under your overhead cupboards to shine onto the bench too. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 297Aug 18, 2016 2:16 pm Hi there just wondering what you think of these downlights? We are on a budget so I've been trawling the internet for good deals! Have been reading through all your recommendations! https://ledlightsonline.com.au/downligh ... l-13w.html Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 298Aug 18, 2016 2:38 pm Hi 1960sMH, I've really enjoyed following your thread and advice. Thank you! I'm hoping you can dispense some advice on my current low glare LED options for a shared lounge/dining area. I have a total of 12 provisions in the area (8m L x 4m W), which i may/ may not fully use. I'm also hoping to keep these luminaires around $50 a unit. Q1: Suggestions on number of downlights and spacing for both the dining and lounge area. Q2: A suitable low/glare wide beam downlight for the kitchen? Is there such a one? Q3: Any alternatives in a similar price point you would highly rate The LED downlights will be either; Q3-a) Domus Deep-75 (650LM) / or Deep-90 (w/gimble 1045LM). 60 degree beam. Sharp COB LED (which i hear is a go-to LED module) https://www.domuslighting.com.au/deep-7 ... -white-led Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Q3-b) Sunny UNIFIT S9008/S9053. 700LM 60 degree beam ( with 25 and 40 degree reflector options). Sharp COB. (also available in gimble). These look to be suitably replaceable as well. http://sal.net.au/led-downlights/catalo ... page-42-43 Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The area in question is highlighted in red; Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Provisioning plan; Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 299Aug 18, 2016 9:21 pm bojaxvogue Hi there just wondering what you think of these downlights? We are on a budget so I've been trawling the internet for good deals! Have been reading through all your recommendations! https://ledlightsonline.com.au/downligh ... l-13w.html Can't comment on the quality as I am unfamiliar with the brand, but the design looks good and it appears to be of the type I recommend (low glare with a controlled beam angle) Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Ask a lighting design engineer - general Q&A 300Aug 18, 2016 9:40 pm 1960sModernistHome bojaxvogue Hi there just wondering what you think of these downlights? We are on a budget so I've been trawling the internet for good deals! Have been reading through all your recommendations! https://ledlightsonline.com.au/downligh ... l-13w.html Can't comment on the quality as I am unfamiliar with the brand, but the design looks good and it appears to be of the type I recommend (low glare with a controlled beam angle) Thanks so much! You should check your detail drawings, it may show downpipe within brick pier. 14 14099 I work with owner, he/she is my man on the ground and I instruct them when to visit the site and take photos and I have other tools in the bag. 4 15275 Ardo That is so funny! I wonder how many people know who Larry Haun is these days. I have a couple of young guys we call Mo 1 & Mo 2 who run a crew of 6 boys and… 9 15518 |