Browse Forums Lighting + Lighting Design 1 Feb 04, 2012 1:58 pm I was hoping someone counld help me out in explaining all about downlights and their features. We are about to start construction on a new home where we will fit the kitchen and living areas (possibly bedrooms too) with downlights but I don't know where to start. This will be our 'forever' houe so we would like something that is energy efficent. Is LED the best way to go? What should I look eg.. voltage etc... I would also be interested in which lights you would recommend for the areas listed, brands, store to purchase from (either online/retail outlets) etc.. I've been looking at these lights but not sure if they would suit - http://www.onlinelighting.com.au/produc ... s_id=12913 Thanks soo much in advance - I am hoping cenemelectrical has found this thread. Jem's Custom build - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=58630 Re: What should i look for in a downlight 2Feb 10, 2012 9:17 am bump... anyone? Jem's Custom build - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=58630 Re: What should i look for in a downlight 3Feb 10, 2012 4:09 pm Hi jemsaf, I've actually looked at those lights in a store, and they are just OK. The intensity of the light is reasonable for a living space, not for a tasky area like a kitchen. I found the cool white colour very stark, and the warm white colour slightly murky with a hint of green. It's important to note that these lights are just a gimble fitting with a GU10 LED bulb. These bulbs are designed specifically to retrofit into existing halogen fixtures, and will never have the light output and quality/longevity of a complete LED fixture. If you're building a 'forever' house, you might want to go with a higher quality complete fixture ie. that doesn't have a separate bulb and fixture, but rather is a whole unit running off an LED transformer. These units tend to cost more in the range $60-100. Re: What should i look for in a downlight 4Feb 10, 2012 7:46 pm Thanks MrZebra. What would you recommend and where from? Jem's Custom build - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=58630 Re: What should i look for in a downlight 5Feb 10, 2012 9:05 pm paulw11 just alerted me to this store http://www.electricalproducts.com.au/ which has the Brightgreen D900 for $104, and the Pierlite Starburst for $102 (I had to check the prices over the phone today). Both of these are meant to be exceptional products (and represent a benchmark in LED lighting quality) but are quite pricey; the Brightgreen has a 5 year warranty, not sure about the Pierlite. The same store also has this: http://www.electricalproducts.com.au/113w-led-ceiling-light-led-downlight-ele-13ww.html which paulw11 assures is also excellent and almost as good as the Brightgreen product, and for only $64. I noticed at Bunnings the other day that they have the Osram Luxpoint mini for $79, which is a great price and they seem to be a good product (being Osram, it lends confidence and they have a 3 year warranty). I've been to see these in person: http://www.ecosparks.com.au/Coolmax-MiniMax-12-watt-Dimmable-Downlight and they are a lovely downlight. Ray who owns the business is a sparky by trade and is very knowledgeable; he also has a background in lighting design, and can provide excellent advice on layouts etc. My friend has the EVO50 from here: http://www.ledlighting.com.au which are excellent, but about $90 a pop. These are also good, I've seen them at L&H Electrical wholesalers: http://lumexlighting.com.au/products/ about $80 a pop, but come with a 7 year warranty, which is the best I've seen for an LED. All of the above lights give a strong, wide beam and as such are good for general room lighting (as well as task lighting), however, some, like the Osram, come in a 60* and a 36* beam angle so make sure you choose the right type depending on the purpose of the lighting. These also look good: http://www.ledcentral.com.au/online-store/5x3watt-led-downlights However in my experience, lights of this type (with multiple chips and no diffuser) give a fairly narrow spot (out to about 40*) surrounded by a feint halo (even though they claim to be a 60* spread). In general I feel more confident in brands that provide empirically derived photometric data (which shows the true beam spread and often the decay of luminous efficiency with time/temperature), however this isn't absolutely critical. For instance, the EcoSparks product doesn't provide photometric data but uses the Cree MC-E diode, and the housing, heat sink and driver are all excellent quality - so I trust this product. I guess its impossible to predict whether any of these downlights are really going to survive for the 50,000 hours that they state as their lifetime, but in theory, they ought to work for a good ten years and hence prove to be financially and environmentally favourable compared to halogens. The MOST important design aspect of LED downlights is their thermal management (ie. how they dissipate heat so the chip stays cool). LEDs used in computers and electrical gadgets WILL last for more than 10 years, if not decades because they use low current and stay very cool. However, LEDs used for room lighting have a much higher input current and as such generate a lot more heat - HEAT slowly kills LEDs by degrading the semiconductor materials they are made of. As such, you need to make sure that any LED downlight you buy has a really good heat 'sink', which is the 'head' of the downlight tht sits in the roof space. The heat sink typically has lots of aluminium 'fins' which dissipate the heat from the chip to the air. GU10 bulbs typically have small heat sinks relative to complete downlight units, and as such don't have the same life output or longevity. It's probably a good idea to only order a single unit from whichever supplier you go with, so you can check the quality of the light colour and beam spread in your own home. As an aside, an interim measure could be to install low voltage halogen downlights for around $15 each for the driver and fitting, with the Osram, GE or Philips energy saving halogen MR16 bulbs (where only a 35w bulb would be required for task lighting, as opposed to a 50w, and only a 20w bulb for general room lighting - these energy savers require less energy to put out more light). Since LED technology follows roughly Moore's law, where each 10 year period will see a decrease in the cost of LEDs by 10-fold and an increase their luminous efficiency 10-fold, you could install energy saving halogens now and in five or so years straighforwardly swap out all of your halogens for LEDs for a lower total cost of buying LEDs now. Possibly better for the wallet in the long run, but perhaps not as environmentally sound. Anyway, that was quite a brain dump. Sorry to go overboard - but I've been researching this topic for weeks and I still don't know what to do!! I've also whipped a nice spreadsheet to determine the overall cost savings of installing LEDs (ie how long it takes to break vs halogens) so if you want some input on that front, private message me. For me, it is more cost economical to install LEDs in my kitchen (which will get used a lot), but energy saving halogens in my dining, hall, study, which get used much less. When the cost of LEDs comes down by maybe 80%, I can then replace my halogens. Good luck and let me know what you decide!! And apologies once again, I'm a total science nerd Re: What should i look for in a downlight 6Feb 12, 2012 7:16 am WOW thanks science nerd.... whoops I mean MrZebra. lol Thanks you soo much for spending the time to share all that info with me! So I think I can narrow it down to Pierlite Starburst 12W - $102 Brightgreen D900 - $104 Ecosparks, Cool max 12W - $97.68 All dimmable ... Can any of these be installed as DIY's? I think we'll need about 24 lights all up - 5 for entry and hallways - 6 for family room - 6 for dining room - 4 for living area - 3 for kithcen area MrZebra you don't know anything about fans with lights for our bedrooms do you? (only half joking here lol) Jem's Custom build - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=58630 Re: What should i look for in a downlight 7Feb 12, 2012 10:00 am Well, you know what, I just installed a ceiling fan in my bedroom! I don't know a huge amount about them - except that the remote control is an absolute must! Its really convenient and reduces the amount of electrical work during installation. I got this one: http://www.eurolight.com.au/martec-envi ... -p-60.html The light is a dimmable fluoro circular tube in warm white (although from this company you have to buy the warm white tube for an extra $15 as it comes automatically with a day light tube - not a huge concern as its a great price for the package anyway). The light output is good, colour of the light is good and the dimming works really well. Very quiet operation and my partner and I absolutely love it - miles better than a pedestal fan. This model is probably a bit big for a bedroom, but it's quite attractive and now that we're used to it, we barely notice it. As for your downlights, whichever model you choose, you'll need a sparky to install. You can work out the placements and cut the holes yourself, but an electrician is required by law to do the wiring Re: What should i look for in a downlight 8Feb 12, 2012 2:25 pm When we were planning our lighting, our lighting consultant actually recommended we go with halogens for now, but with LED transformers (which isn't so good for halogens). His reasoning was that LEDs are improving rapidly, but are not quite there yet, so advised against being locked in to one supplier. Re: What should i look for in a downlight 9Feb 13, 2012 8:17 am Gentlements, I am also looking into replacing all the halogen downlights at my future home(still building) with the LEDs. The cost can be quite pricey but in the long term, it will save a long way. Hmm.. still deciding which supplier should I still go with... ___________________ Building with Carlisle Homes, Montrose 36 in Point Cook http://www.pointcookfb.blogspot.com/ Re: What should i look for in a downlight 10Feb 14, 2012 11:27 am In all seriousness, you should think about only changing the lights that you use for several hours a day for the timebeing. The cost of LED downlights will drop considerably in the next 5 years, and there is almost no chance that you would recoup your costs in that time on energy savings. Of course, this point is moot if you have lots of money and want to be kind to the environment Re: What should i look for in a downlight 11Feb 14, 2012 11:46 am MrZebra As for your downlights, whichever model you choose, you'll need a sparky to install. You can work out the placements and cut the holes yourself, but an electrician is required by law to do the wiring You can ask your electrician to install '413' sockets - these are basically power points in your ceiling space. Then you can get downlights with leads/plugs fitted and plug them in yourself. This also makes it easier if you want to replace the whole downlight in the future. Paul Re: What should i look for in a downlight 13Feb 15, 2012 1:45 pm Thanks MrZebra and Paulw11 for excellent information for those like me looking at downlight options! Really helpful! If I go the halogen option, how much should it cost per light including heat shield if I go for the 35W IRC energy saver Halogens? These would put out more light than most LEDs<$100 each and should last ~5000 hours. Maybe that's the way to go. I'm now weighing between halogen and a more economical but good LED like the Osram Parathom. I've tried the Osram Parathom Pro 10W LED in my current house. Whilst not putting out as much light as a standard 50W Halogen (or 35W energy saver), it has a tighter beam angle of 36 degrees and this focuses the light so the perception of difference in brightness is actually quite small. The 36 degree beam also suits my high ceilings of ~3.6m (Victorian style height), I think. Re: What should i look for in a downlight 14Feb 15, 2012 4:07 pm HB, I bought a low voltage halogen downlight kit from Bunnings the other day for ~$13, including heat shield. And this place has a good price on the Osram IRC globes; http://lightingpro.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26_28&products_id=150&RD=LPHomTxtOsramIRCHalogen As for the 3.6m ceilings (lucky you!), you're right, 36* is probably better than 60*. From that height, 36* would focus most of the output into a spot on the floor with a diameter of ~2.3m; 60* would be a spot of 4.2m with about half the lux/footcandles. If you're going for a spacing of 1.5-2 m between lights, 36* will give better lighting. Re: What should i look for in a downlight 15Feb 16, 2012 4:04 pm I have just finished installing LED through my entire house. Very impressed with the light quality. I have used LED as downlights, bayonet fitting globes, chandelier globes, and exterior floodlights. I am an electrician, so did the installation myself. A few of my own opinions on LED: I dislike both Warm White (dull, lifeless, and yellow), and Cool Whilte (stark, cold and, throws a blue colour). Sticking with standard size cutouts is essential. 90mm is best 70mm ok (but a lot harder to plug lights into the surface mounts) Sticking with standard spacing is wise. I try to use 2m diameter for 2.4-2.7m ceilings. Consider the floor covering/material and its colour when you are choosing light and its adequacy for application. I wouldnt even consider using anything less than a 5*3W downlight for general lighting. As i said, i am really happy that i sourced a good supplier. I am now supplying lights for a 1000m2 house here locally. So he obviously was impressed also. BTW I used led globes sourced from my supplier for 12months 24/7 while we were building. No failures. Good luck. PM me if you would like any more info. Good luck What should i look for in a downlight 16Feb 16, 2012 7:04 pm ozberg I have just finished installing LED through my entire house. Very impressed with the light quality. I have used LED as downlights, bayonet fitting globes, chandelier globes, and exterior floodlights. I am an electrician, so did the installation myself. A few of my own opinions on LED: I dislike both Warm White (dull, lifeless, and yellow), and Cool Whilte (stark, cold and, throws a blue colour). Sticking with standard size cutouts is essential. 90mm is best 70mm ok (but a lot harder to plug lights into the surface mounts) Sticking with standard spacing is wise. I try to use 2m diameter for 2.4-2.7m ceilings. Consider the floor covering/material and its colour when you are choosing light and its adequacy for application. I wouldnt even consider using anything less than a 5*3W downlight for general lighting. As i said, i am really happy that i sourced a good supplier. I am now supplying lights for a 1000m2 house here locally. So he obviously was impressed also. BTW I used led globes sourced from my supplier for 12months 24/7 while we were building. No failures. Good luck. PM me if you would like any more info. Good luck Can you recommend a good LED bulb that is dimmable for the screw in type fittings fittings? It is for the wall lights in the media room and the couple of electrical stores here are very expensive, so not keen on spending huge $$ on a globe to find out I've bought a crap one. --------------------- Sent from my mobile device so please excuse my typing missed cakes. ~ trying to build our dream home by the sea ~ Re: What should i look for in a downlight 17Feb 18, 2012 2:31 am ESB ozberg I have just finished installing LED through my entire house. Very impressed with the light quality. I have used LED as downlights, bayonet fitting globes, chandelier globes, and exterior floodlights. I am an electrician, so did the installation myself. A few of my own opinions on LED: I dislike both Warm White (dull, lifeless, and yellow), and Cool Whilte (stark, cold and, throws a blue colour). Sticking with standard size cutouts is essential. 90mm is best 70mm ok (but a lot harder to plug lights into the surface mounts) Sticking with standard spacing is wise. I try to use 2m diameter for 2.4-2.7m ceilings. Consider the floor covering/material and its colour when you are choosing light and its adequacy for application. I wouldnt even consider using anything less than a 5*3W downlight for general lighting. As i said, i am really happy that i sourced a good supplier. I am now supplying lights for a 1000m2 house here locally. So he obviously was impressed also. BTW I used led globes sourced from my supplier for 12months 24/7 while we were building. No failures. Good luck. PM me if you would like any more info. Good luck Can you recommend a good LED bulb that is dimmable for the screw in type fittings fittings? It is for the wall lights in the media room and the couple of electrical stores here are very expensive, so not keen on spending huge $$ on a globe to find out I've bought a crap one. --------------------- Sent from my mobile device so please excuse my typing missed cakes. What size fitting is it E14 (Edison Screw 14mm), E27 (Edison Screw 27mm) B15 (Bayonet 15mm) or B22(Bayonet 22mm). Also are they for general or mood lighting. I have used 2 types: 3W Candle globes for chandeliers etc- they actually produce really good light. I have 8 in our entry chandelier and really didnt need to install downlights in this area. 10W Globe - these are a LED globe with a "glass bowl" fitting. They are bulkier than a standard globe but light output is equivalent or greater than a standard 100W globe. I have used them in the toilet, powder room, study, and WIR (basically everywhere i didnt use chandeleirs, or downlights). PM me your email and i can send some pics. Re: What should i look for in a downlight 19Mar 16, 2012 3:10 pm The brightgreen are great. Which type do you have donnam? We have the dr700s which repleaced our halogens but are thinking of replacing some old light fittings with downlights and going with the D900. No the fireplace doesn’t work. It’s been enclosed. I’m not sure what was removed, as it was done quite some time ago - well before what I can see with photos online… 2 11590 Interested in getting either the Polytec Boston Oak or Palace Peak for kitchen cabinets. Looking at the Boston Oak ones, it appears that the colour varies significantly… 0 9186 i imagine you also have another contract with an architect? and yeah, whatever other's said about special conditions and appendices 16 16026 |