Browse Forums Lighting + Lighting Design 1 Jun 28, 2007 11:34 am A report on 4 Corners last night showed how these lights really eat up power so cost a considerable amount more to run.
An extract from the show: JONATHAN HOLMES: According to energy expert Alan Pears, tens of thousands of Australians make the same mistake as Deborah Johnston. They think low voltage means low energy use and no one's told them otherwise. ALAN PEARS, ENERGY EFFICIENCY CONSULTANT: Well, that's a big fallacy. It's not the voltage that counts at all; it's the watts and so one of these halogens is 50 watts and hidden up in your ceiling this kilogram of steel and copper is using another 12 watts or so. So overall your halogen light, your low voltage halogen light is using 60 watts or more of electricity. JONATHAN HOLMES (to Alan Pears): And of course you tend to have it a lot more of them than you might the old fashioned lights. ALAN PEARS, ENERGY EFFICIENCY CONSULTANT: Absolutely. Because the halogen lamp has a very narrow beam you end up with a dozen of them in your room instead of maybe three ordinary light globes. And we're now seeing a lot of households paying you know, three, four, $500 a year for their lighting bills, when traditionally they were paying $100 or less. JONATHAN HOLMES: For now, at least, there isn't a simple energy efficient substitute. There are ultra-compact fluorescent downlights but they don't work on dimmers and you'll need an electrician to make the switch. You can read the whole transcript here: http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/ ... 961538.htm Might be worth checking out the fluorescent downlights if you have a lot of them. Cheers, Helen Re: Downlights use a lot of power 2Jun 28, 2007 11:40 am Geez - the ABC is a bit behind - dimmable fluoro downlights are readily available!
Our builder doesn't do halogen downlights - if you want downlights, then they are CFL. Re: Downlights use a lot of power 3Jun 28, 2007 11:50 am You're right Stonecutter. I just did a quick search and found them at the shop where part of the interview in the show took place.
http://www.environmentshop.com.au/Produ ... 1&SCID=218 Re: Downlights use a lot of power 4Jun 28, 2007 12:14 pm The dimmable CFLs have four settings: 100%, 66%, 33% and 5%.
The problem is the way you "tell" the lights to dim is to flick them off and on. Just on for 100%, on-off-on for 66% and so on. Not exactly elegant. Re: Downlights use a lot of power 5Jun 28, 2007 1:50 pm Is there any dimmable CFL that would work with 'traditional' dimmers?
Would there be any problem if a CFL is installed to a circuit with dimmers and it is 'accidentally' dimmed down? Re: Downlights use a lot of power 6Jun 28, 2007 2:01 pm There is an issue trying to dim a CFL or any fluro for that matter.
These CLF units are doing it via electronics inside the bulb - not by an external voltage drop - which if you dimmed via the dimmer would most likely burn them out ut by underpowering them. And just a thought re power usage that the 4 corners report sort of missed. CFL's and LEDs are all very good and part of the way to reduce our power usage. but cooling / heating and refridgeration are some of the biggest users of power in our houses. FYI - this is an Interesting WA link re this. http://www1.sedo.energy.wa.gov.au/pages/energy_smart_homes.asp Steve Re: Downlights use a lot of power 7Jun 28, 2007 2:13 pm Yak_Chat CFL's and LEDs are all very good and part of the way to reduce our power usage. but cooling / heating and refridgeration are some of the biggest users of power in our houses. Steve, I think the emphasis on CFL is that an entire house can be upgraded for $100 to $200 whereas upgrading refridgeration or heaing/cooling are a bigger investment. Also CFL saves around 80% of the power whereas savings on the other stuff is more marginal. Depends where you are in life, I'm not keen to upgrade my fridge for about 10 years unless it dies on me. When I do however, I will look for the most energy efficient at the time. Will need a dishwasher soon so will buy an energy efficient one. Basically don't chuck out all your old systems and buy new, just make sure that when you do upgrade that you choose with efficiency in mind. This is not true for CFLs, you should chuck out the old incandescents and put in CFLs. 3xb Re: Downlights use a lot of power 8Jun 28, 2007 2:15 pm FWIW, Bunnings had CFL's in 4 packs (or was it 5 packs?) for $10 the other day so $2 or $2.50 each.
3xb Re: Downlights use a lot of power 9Jun 28, 2007 2:20 pm Gosh it's a minefield out there if you try to do the right thing. I just looked at the forum that ran after the 4 Corners show and there was a lot of discussion about people not knowing what product to buy, how to use it properly etc. My head's still spinning with all the info on light bulbs. One point made is there is very little assistance from the government in helping people make the right choices.
As for fridges – the energy expert on the show said they have actually become much more efficient in recent years. I know we’ve been told that we can probably run a normal, efficient fridge on our solar system now, whereas just a few years ago this would have been impossible. What does suck up a lot of power, apparently, are the new TVs which do not come under an energy rating scheme. Re: Downlights use a lot of power 10Jun 28, 2007 2:22 pm lets not forget one of the biggest power guzzlers - our new plasmas that we love so much. You'll notice that when you buy a plasma there is no energy rating on it...............
And why is that Why isn't it mandatory for all large and bulky appliances to have energy ratings on them Sorry got a bit of the topic Re: Downlights use a lot of power 11Jun 28, 2007 2:48 pm Energy saving tip:
Unplug mobile phone chargers when not in use. They produce an additional 50Kg of CO2 per year if left plugged in (and switched on of course). 3xb Re: Downlights use a lot of power 12Jun 28, 2007 2:53 pm Our LCD TV will use 1/4 the power in maximum energy saving mode, and in all but very bright light conditions is still bright enough for quality watching. Re: Downlights use a lot of power 14Jun 28, 2007 3:12 pm Very true triple ex B,
A few $$ can change a 60 or 100 watt globe to an 11 watt globe. A tip if your putting CFLs into a normal incandesant bulb type socket in the ceiling - this type of CFL throws a lot of light upwards, (about the same as down - goes up) and it makes a big difference if you can reflect that "up light" back down to the floor. Ie via a white or reflective ceiling - light colour /reflective lamp shades etc. I still think LED's will have a big impact yet - I was using them on 12volts in the early 80s and they were great then without the recent brightness improvements. Re TV's how many people actually turn off the standby feature - I turn my Telly and DVD totally off. When I want to use it I get up - push the on button it goes into standby then I use the remote as required, and the I turn the boxes totally off afterwards. PC monitor etc the same. Steve Re: Downlights use a lot of power 15Jun 28, 2007 3:51 pm Hi Steve,
I have been thinking about why the charger uses power even when nothing is connected. I think it has to do with the coils generating a magnetic field. When disconnected, the coil connected to the phone is open circuit but the mains coil is still connected. Since no power is drawn by the phone (because it is not connected) no power should be used in theory. In reality, I suspect that inefficiencies and leakages and possibly distortions in the magnetic field. Just had a quick look on wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer ) and: "whereas hysteresis and eddy currents losses contribute to over 99% of the no-load loss. The no-load loss can be significant, meaning that even an idle transformer constitutes a drain on an electrical supply, and lending impetus to development of low-loss transformers" So that explains it, errrr...sort of. Anyway, my point is that most appliances that have an off switch like TV's switch off the low voltage side of the transformer as it is easier (reduced sparking for one and less electrical noise). So even turning off the power on the TV may still result in fairly significant power loss. I guess this means that the best option is the power switch at the wall. Maybe we need to have a room power switch next to the light switch for when going to bed. I am very intrested in peoples view on all this as it is something that has only just occured to me ( the original mobile phone charger tip is from a poster at work - not claiming credit for that one). 3xb Re: Downlights use a lot of power 16Jun 28, 2007 4:19 pm 3xb - I saw this on The New Inventors - the eco switch:
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s1899659.htm Love this line: Once a sufficient level of home entertainment has been reached and the user wished to decommence entertainment, the switch turns off all units and they draw no power until entertainment is next required. Re: Downlights use a lot of power 17Jun 28, 2007 4:28 pm Yes the hysteris etc will be doing it - Now your testing me - I did this stuff back in 1977 as part of my electronics courses !!!
Re the TV - well sans marriage I don;t have that issue - My telle is an old clunker that switches the 240Volts input before the trasnformer. But re any ow voltage switched units - yep totally off at the wall is the only way and it turns off all the LEDS and fluro display etc etc. Soemtiem you loose all th settings If the internal backup battery goes flat as well. But do try this sometime. Turn off the fridge, freezer and all the lights in the hosue - daytime si best - then go outside and watch your meter go round and round (ticking) as the power used keeps the rest of these passive devices running. Steve Re: Downlights use a lot of power 18Jun 28, 2007 5:06 pm You can replace your Halogen's with LED lights suited to MR16 sockets. They typically use 1-3 watts of power and cost between $15-30. Hold off for about 6 months or so though as the market will soon be flooded with cheap LEDs.
The only real downside of LED's is that they typically don't quite have the beam width of halogens (there are some good ones coming through now though i.e. luxeon based lights often have a 60 degree beam). Also when running them in 240v sockets there is some power loss due to the conversion. But still it's a lot better than a 50w halogen. Re: Downlights use a lot of power 19Jun 28, 2007 5:37 pm At risk of sounding like the publicity officer for the Alternative Technolgy Association (I'm not, though I am a member), this edition of Renew magazine has an article entitled "What to do with your downlights".
It appears quite detailed, but I'm no expert. It covers: * description of the problems associated with downlights * "delamping" (getting rid of bulbs where you don't need them; dispersion angles) * wattage reduction * tranformers * better alternatives * LED retrofits * GU10 fittings * incandescant downlights * ditching the downlights * replacing the downlights ... with downlights! (GLS bulb downlights) If you're wanting to be strategic about managing downlight overload on your power bills, this might be a good place to start. I just counted the total number of lights we have in our rental house when I was trying out a new carbon calculator the other day. We have 7 (only two of which, I confess have compact fluros) plus 2 lamps - basically one per room and two in the lounge. In contrast, I counted 18 visible downlights in a picture of a kitchen/dining area I saw the other day!! I was inspired by a poster in another thread who said that he's only planning to have one light per room in the house he's building. If I can keep to that for our new place, I'll not only save a fortune on greenpower bills, but also in the building process. e. Re: Downlights use a lot of power 20Jun 28, 2007 5:43 pm I just wish they'd send me my copy of renew- Joined a few weeks ago and no mag yet
But hey i can better the one light per room E. I do that anyway with CFL that was there when io bought it - LEDS to come soon as I upgrade my lighting. But my place being above and below road level - gets lots of "Street light into it" So I can see quite well without turning any lights on. Keep it in mind when your building - place your skylights so they get sunlight and street lights into them Steve Would anyone on this forum know of a builder/company in Brisbane with house designs for a shallow block. I have a block 20 x 20 so with front and rear set backs I need a… 0 4742 You must be new to the internet. You're also the only person anyone here has ever heard of washing their garage wall. I hate to break it to you, there are insects and… 6 4834 I am building in claymore NSW and this is shown in the building envelope plan. … 0 10034 |