Browse Forums Lighting + Lighting Design 1 Feb 10, 2009 3:35 pm Hi everyone,
Been trailing these forums for a while now, but first time posting. These forums have been a GREAT help as I will be building soon. Onto the question! I am planning on having the lighting in the house done after handover (as the builder is charging way too much). We pretty much are getting junction boxes placed where we plan to have downlights (living areas), so that the switches are all sorted out. The only concern I have is with the Ensuite and bathroom. I plan to have installed an IXL light/heat/fan combo unit in each - which will require 3 switches for itself. Therefore, what do I need to tell the builder to provision? Originally, I asked for just some conduiting so that an electrician can wire up whatever he needs later on. Our prestart consultant has come back to us saying that they can't just put a conduit there, but recommend putting 2 junction boxes. Is this correct? I have a vague feeling that she doesn't actually know what is required and is just relaying information from someone else. I have called up some electricians myself, but all give me different answers: - one said i would need a junction box AND a conduit - another told me a normal switch to a light is fine. 'They' can change the switch later to accomodate the IXLs I am so confused. Any help on this matter will be VERY much appreciated! Thanks all! Gordon Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 2Feb 10, 2009 4:16 pm Hi Gordon, welcome to the forum.
We wired up our eco IXL heat lights in the bathroom and ensuite. A double light unit in the kids bathroom and a 4 light unit for the ensuite as it is a much larger area. We had 3 core ( i think its called) wire pre wired into the house and it was connected up after handover. But we found out that the 4 light in the ensuite actually needs 4 core wire not the 3 core wire we had previously used to wire up a 4 light. It was assumed there are 3 switches so 3 core wire is req'd. That was what our last 4 light unit had in our last place, but this new model must have been different. Maybe talk to your s/s when you're wiring is being done and arrange it with the sparky to do it? At the least run the wires and then connect them up at the light unit and switch after handover... Our builder wouldnt do it as it wouldn't comply with the 5 star rating we were told, so we arranged it ourselves. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 3Feb 10, 2009 4:21 pm We had IXL-tastics installed in both the bathroom and ensuite in our recently purchased house. The sparky replaced the existing switch with a four switch panel (fan, light, heat lights x 2, heat lights x 4) - its a common after market sparky job.
The only thing to be wary of is running the load when operating both set of IXL heatlights concurrently. He separated our lighting circuits into two and he placed one on each so that the lighting circuit would not be overloaded. Again a simple job...well for a sparky anyway. mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 4Feb 10, 2009 4:29 pm Thanks Nicola and thanks Mike.
Mike, so what you are saying is that you had a normal 1switch panel on the wall that lead to one ceiling light....this was then changed to the IXL and the switch simply change to a 4switch panel? Interesting... I wonder if you already had the 4core wire thingy Nicola was talking about..hmmm. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 5Feb 10, 2009 4:33 pm Hmmm interesting.
Hey Mike, with your lights, can you run the fan without the small single light being on? We cant.... The little light has to be on for any of the others to work? Wasn't sure if thats normal or just the way the eco model works??? If its meant to be that way, its not very conomical in my opinion thats for sure! Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 6Feb 10, 2009 4:57 pm RedIsotope Thanks Nicola and thanks Mike. Mike, so what you are saying is that you had a normal 1switch panel on the wall that lead to one ceiling light....this was then changed to the IXL and the switch simply change to a 4switch panel? Interesting... I wonder if you already had the 4core wire thingy Nicola was talking about..hmmm. Yes...we had a single batten light only...he installed the IXL tastic and a four switch...er...switch.... ...one for the centre "normal" light, one for the fan, one for two heat lamps, one for the other two heat lamps. He didn't mention having to rewire...but he may have. Another thing to note is that the new IXL's have a thermatic switch...if you turn on the heat lamps only (without the exhaust fan) the fan should automatically come on (at a lower speed than the normal exhaust mode) to cool down the unit and will switch on and off every five minutes or so...very important for the "eco" units which have a draught flap and therefore don't cool "naturally". **Phoenix** Hmmm interesting. Hey Mike, with your lights, can you run the fan without the small single light being on? We cant.... The little light has to be on for any of the others to work? Wasn't sure if thats normal or just the way the eco model works??? If its meant to be that way, its not very conomical in my opinion thats for sure! Each of the separate components can be operated individually...fan only only, middle normal light only, or either of the two sets of two heat lamps only. Alternatively you can turn everything on. mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 7Feb 10, 2009 7:45 pm I rewired my ensuite when I renovated recently and ran one wire for each function on the switch.
Also may I recommend the HPM brand heater light. They have a ceramic light base as opposed to the plastic in the IXL. Also alot better all over looks and construction I reckon... and cheaper! Available at Bunnies. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 8Feb 10, 2009 8:44 pm There was a thread around last year about the different makes of these and the IXL's were suggested to be the recommended ones to get. We need to get this organised soon as we are responsible for supplying them for our builders electrician. Ours are set to be flued to outside. ( flue are already in and waiting)
Anyone want to add furhter details? Also Renosmakemeweary why are you suggesting the HPM ones? What make you suggest them? Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 9Feb 10, 2009 10:49 pm Thanks everyone for all the info. And yes, any more info/advice is very welcome.
I need to get back to my prestart consultant tomorrow, so I think I will ask for a 1switch panel, wired through a conduit to one light batten in the ceiling. Additionally, this will be on its own circuit wired back to the main switchboard. Hopefully, this will provide all the flexibility required for any future wiring to an IXL tastic (or anything else for that matter). If someone reads this and thinks this is the wrong approach, please don't hesitate to tell me! Gordon Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 10Feb 11, 2009 11:49 am kexkez There was a thread around last year about the different makes of these and the IXL's were suggested to be the recommended ones to get. We need to get this organised soon as we are responsible for supplying them for our builders electrician. Ours are set to be flued to outside. ( flue are already in and waiting) Anyone want to add furhter details? Also Renosmakemeweary why are you suggesting the HPM ones? What make you suggest them? They have a ceramic light base as opposed to the plastic in the IXL. Also alot better all over looks and construction I reckon... and cheaper. Just make a comparison. Go to Bunnings pull both out of the box and compare them critically. I did and believe the HPM to be superior for the price. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 11Feb 13, 2009 8:11 am The prewire and conduit depends on the wall construction.
Is the house single story or two? Is it full brick or brick veneer (gyprock and timber frames)? Architrave mounted switch or standard wall position? As a general rule, sparkies can install an IXL where an existing light once was. The cable required is dependent on the age of the house and therefore the cabling technique when installed. IXL's with 4 heat lamps need to be on their own circuit so any good sparky will run directly from the switchboard to the unit. 4 heat lamps require 4 switch wires. fan, light and one for each heat. this is where the original cabling comes into it. if its an older house, the incoming power will be "looped" at the unit. Newer houses will have the incoming power "looped" at the switch. If its looped at the unit then the sparky will need to run 5 cables down. one per switch and a feed. if its looped at the switch then its 4 switch wires as well as neutral and earth. I hope this is clear. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 12Feb 13, 2009 11:01 am Hello and thanks for the information.
To give more info: Single story house Full Brick Standard wall position (should be this as I don't know what an architrave mounted switch would be like ) I'm not very knowledgable about all this, but my concern was that, since it was a full brick house and the switch was going onto an internal wall, sparkies won't be able to 'run' any additional cables to the switch as there are no cavities. Anyway, the builder has agreed to wire up a 4switch panel on the wall to the ceiling, on its own circuit (extra charge for this of course), and has told me that all I need to do later is to hook up the IXL unit. That's for the ensuite. For the bathroom I opted for just a switch wired through a conduit to a single light in the ceiling. If I decide to stick an IXL there (most likely just a 2 lamp combo), then hopefully if the sparkie needs to run cables down he/she will be able to do this. Thanks again. Gordon Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 13Feb 13, 2009 11:55 am Full Brick is a pain in the ........ for sparkies and more cost for you for additional works.
It sounds like the builder as made the right provisions for the IXL. As for the other bathroom, as its a single story house (i'm assuming roof access here) another IXL will be possible. It depends on the conduit size in the wall, switch position (eg on gyprock or tile) and type of IXL. One thing to think of too, is the IXL is a large recessed unit. Will the timber work in the roof allow the IXL to go where you want it. It mustn't be over the shower or within 300mm (Don't fail me now brain) of the shower screen. The last thing you want is to have cold water splash a hot heat lamp and it shatter all over you. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 14Feb 13, 2009 12:27 pm I think over here in the West all new houses are full brick. That's probably why I don't recognise eastern state houses during their building (frame up) stage, as they look totally different.
It's good to hear that the correct provisions will be in place for an IXL unit install after handover. But this was ONLY acheived after I gave them specific details on how I wanted it all hooked up. At prestart I advised the consultant of my intentions to have an IXL 4lamp combo unit installed in the ensuite. Consultant later came back and said to provision for this, I would need to have 2 junction boxes wired to the ceiling above. I don't know whether this would have achieved the same result, but after making a few calls to a few sparkies and posting on this forum, I thought it best if it were done differently to what the consultant had advised. I've been told by the builder the largest conduit they will do is 25mm, so that's what I got. Yes, there is roof access, yes switch on gyprock. And yes you are very correct. Timberwork in the roof is now my only worry. But that's ok, we should be able to work around that (unless there's a beam that runs directly above the center of the bathroom ) Thanks again 'The Data Guys' Gordon. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 15Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm You have me worried now. I told them we wanted IXL heater/fan/light combos but didn't know it made a difference whether they were the 2 or 4 lamp ones. I want 4 lamp ones and had planned as such. The sparkie is putting them in. But it just says owner to supply IXL on my contract not which ones. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 16Feb 14, 2009 6:40 am Its a tough call on what the sparky will do.
******* ones will just run it in with the existing light circuit because its cheaper and easier for them and when it comes down to it they will play dumb and say its good for two heat. Decent guys will know that the main bath will generally have a four heat so they will run a dedicated circuit for the IXL's. I had excellent sparkies on my house but I know there are some ******* guys out there who do cheap jobs because the builders force the price down, making it hard to do a good job. Licenced Sparky and Data Cabler If "The Data Guys" is too long to type, TDG will do. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 17Feb 14, 2009 12:24 pm kexkez, probably no harm in calling your Client Liason officer or whoever the contact is for your builder and just advise them that you intend on putting 4lamp IXLs in and that advice from electricians is that these are to be on seperate/dedicated circuits back to the mains switchboard. Don't know whether they will charge you more for this or not, but from what I was told it is definitely easier for them to run the dedicated circuit during build than afterwards (like most things). I think it can be done afterwards, but will probably cost you more in labour hours for the sparkie to run the dedicated line.
Good luck with it. Gordon. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - help 18Feb 14, 2009 12:53 pm hmm thanks. The electrician has already finished his first run. He's not due back until after lockup stage. I think I'll email the Building Liason Officer the information since we'll need to buy these soon. ( we'll have 3 days from when we receive notice to provide them and had planned to go shopping for them next weekend. There isn't any defined mention of the type to be used, as I said. We've already had to pay extra to upgrade from a standard exhaust fan and for it to be ducted out. They are both now replacing the light switch point in both bathrooms rather than being additional. Though for our ensuite we have added an extra light in the form of a downlight near the vanity as well. Thanks for the heads up.
The Data Guys I've just PMed you with a question. Re: Installing IXL light/heat/fan combo after handover - hel 19Jan 18, 2011 3:04 pm I am contributing to the tail-end of this discussion as it seems right on topic even though it is a little old. We have an old 1930's bungalow in which we replaced a metallically-housed four-heat-lamp 3-in-1 (IXL I think?) that had worn its fan out with a new plastic body HPM 622/2AC with four heat lamps on two switches plus a fan and smaller light lamp. It draws about 1300 watts in total. The electrician who installed a new hot water system kindly connected it up for us. Most of the GPO or power wiring has been redone in modern times but remnant wiring (that may not be connected) is plentiful in the ceiling space. A year later we got a Vapotec Steam Sensor that can automatically turn on the exhaust fan when it senses steam when you forget to turn the fan on by its switch. A different electrician installed it but afterwards only two of the four heat lamps worked as a wire had pulled out. Now I had asked him to put the Vapotec in with downlight style sockets so it could be easily unplugged if it or the fan unit went wrong. I just discovered that the socket from which the Vapotec sensor is powered has been connected to a GPO circuit and not the light circuit that the 3-in-1 is powered by. This seems unsafe to me as the connecter to switch the fan has two active lines into it - one switched by the sensor (on a GPO circuit) and the other from the fan switch on the wall. This means that, when steam is present, the GPO voltage is also going to be live on the light circuit & that is not protected by the Earth Leakage Detection Safety Switch! I have asked the company that organized the electrician to come back and rectify all the work later this week. Note they also replaced the wrong old light switch in the hall with a reproduction one instead of the problematic one they were asked to replace as well as not noticing a heat lamp wire had pulled loose! Now my dilemma is should they connect the sensor power socket to the light circuit or rewire the 3-in-1 to the GPO circuit? Note that the space for mains isolation circuit breakers are all used up; the interconnected smoke detectors (in the ceiling space & at both ends of the house) have their own dedicated circuit, as does an included a GPO for outside use, a lights timer circuit and the safety switch. The GPO circuit the sensor is currently wired to is fairly heavily loaded already; pity it was not the other main GPO circuit. Any electricians here please help. 1) Will the Fan need separate switch to ON/OFF/Speed eventhough it comes with Remote 2) how about… 0 1228 Hey all, Hoping for some inspiration for my bathroom laundry combo. The tiles are in good condition, as is the bathtub. I’ve given it a coat of white paint and added… 0 14124 My home office is hot with computer equipment running virtually 18 hours a day. When it gets unbearably warm I simply step out of my door into the living area which is… 0 5131 |