Browse Forums Old Home Restoration / Renovation 1 Dec 20, 2022 8:07 am We are purchasing quite a run down double storey double brick home that requires extensive renovations throughout. We are thinking of deleting some floor space and adding in a double height ceiling of approx 5.5m in the living area where the current stairs are located. Has anyone here done this in a renovation before and able to share their experience and what the approx costs are to do this? I'm no engineer, but deleting upper level floor space (without changing roofline) is more straight forward one would think? Re: Adding void in renovation 2Dec 20, 2022 9:37 am Hey neosdad Welcome to the forum Before you purchase the house it's a good idea. To 1.Obtain a copy of the certified engineering plans and details from the Council 2.Have an Engineer inspect, scan and advise on the structure 3.The engineer should have technical 2D and 3D details, data/proofs, etc available for you during the inspection This will greatly assist you in understanding of what's involved 4.The reno will need to be brought up to the current AS and regulations Goodluck Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Adding void in renovation 3Dec 20, 2022 10:05 am StructuralBIMGuy Hey neosdad Welcome to the forum Before you purchase the house it's a good idea. To 1.Obtain a copy of the certified engineering plans and details from the Council 2.Have an Engineer inspect, scan and advise on the structure 3.The engineer should have technical 2D and 3D details, data/proofs, etc available for you during the inspection This will greatly assist you in understanding of what's involved 4.The reno will need to be brought up to the current AS and regulations Goodluck Thanks for the reply! The house was built in the 60's does such record keeping exist back then (the engineering plans). Re: Adding void in renovation 4Dec 20, 2022 10:18 am Then start at 2. Steer well clear of salesman and artists with fake feature architectural void images asking for deposits to start the process off. We have the 3D Bim & Data tied in with the certified engineering Goodluck Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Adding void in renovation 5Dec 21, 2022 5:54 am It should be pretty straightforward. From a structural viewpoint the floor only acts as a diaphragm for bracing, if the void is centrally located there should be no issue. I assume the walls are being left alone. Re: Adding void in renovation 6Dec 21, 2022 8:45 am pulse So you're advocating cutting a 6m2 void in a suspended concrete slab without top steel? neosdad it helps if your put photos and additional information up, also seek advice from the council building surveyor. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Adding void in renovation 7Dec 21, 2022 1:42 pm I'll post up some pics shortly. I'm generally confused on what the steps are. Instead of starting off with an engineer, wouldn't I need to do concept designs of what I want before I get advice from an engineer if it's possible and then the engineer would work with the designer on amendments or to design it in a way that meets my requirements and budget? It sounds strange if a designer or engineer is strictly prescribing the end result. Somewhat of a balance between art and engineering Re: Adding void in renovation 8Dec 21, 2022 2:04 pm Neosdad I'll post up some pics shortly. I'm generally confused on what the steps are. Instead of starting off with an engineer, wouldn't I need to do concept designs of what I want before I get advice from an engineer if it's possible and then the engineer would work with the designer on amendments or to design it in a way that meets my requirements and budget? It sounds strange if a designer or engineer is strictly prescribing the end result. Somewhat of a balance between art and engineering no. an an engineer will tell you whats possible and what works would be required - this translates easily to costs. If you get somone to draw it up first, there no guarantee the engineering can be achieved. Usually it can, but often at greater cost than if you engaged an engineer to work it out and going from there. You have to look at it from a practical perspective rather than from an aspirational perspective, unless of course money is no object, then go the drawing route and get exactly what you want. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Adding void in renovation 9Dec 21, 2022 2:19 pm Noname Neosdad I'll post up some pics shortly. I'm generally confused on what the steps are. Instead of starting off with an engineer, wouldn't I need to do concept designs of what I want before I get advice from an engineer if it's possible and then the engineer would work with the designer on amendments or to design it in a way that meets my requirements and budget? It sounds strange if a designer or engineer is strictly prescribing the end result. Somewhat of a balance between art and engineering no. an an engineer will tell you whats possible and what works would be required - this translates easily to costs. If you get somone to draw it up first, there no guarantee the engineering can be achieved. Usually it can, but often at greater cost than if you engaged an engineer to work it out and going from there. You have to look at it from a practical perspective rather than from an aspirational perspective, unless of course money is no object, then go the drawing route and get exactly what you want. Thanks! So I guess get an engineer on site and tell them what I want and they come back with what's possible/work required and expected costs? Will they also provide specifics on any support beams so that a builder can follow and build to spec? And do I simply look for the services of a structural engineer for this work? Re: Adding void in renovation 10Dec 21, 2022 2:21 pm Neosdad Noname Neosdad I'll post up some pics shortly. I'm generally confused on what the steps are. Instead of starting off with an engineer, wouldn't I need to do concept designs of what I want before I get advice from an engineer if it's possible and then the engineer would work with the designer on amendments or to design it in a way that meets my requirements and budget? It sounds strange if a designer or engineer is strictly prescribing the end result. Somewhat of a balance between art and engineering no. an an engineer will tell you whats possible and what works would be required - this translates easily to costs. If you get somone to draw it up first, there no guarantee the engineering can be achieved. Usually it can, but often at greater cost than if you engaged an engineer to work it out and going from there. You have to look at it from a practical perspective rather than from an aspirational perspective, unless of course money is no object, then go the drawing route and get exactly what you want. Thanks! So I guess get an engineer on site and tell them what I want and they come back with what's possible/work required and expected costs? Will they also provide specifics on any support beams so that a builder can follow and build to spec? And do I simply look for the services of a structural engineer for this work? yes yes and yes. Thats the idea. if you are in NSW, reach out to @ashington Homes for a possible contact. He seems to know quite a few good sorts in various parts of the building game. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Adding void in renovation 11Dec 22, 2022 7:18 pm StructuralBIMGuy @pulse So you're advocating cutting a 6m2 void in a suspended concrete slab without top steel? Chris, he didn’t mention it was a suspended slab. I assumed it was timber and covered by AS1684. Your comment is not constructive. You’ve misrepresented my advice to make it sound stupid. This is the strawman fallacy. As if a poster here is going to use a demo saw to cut a hole in a suspended slab. You should really try to post in a helpful and constructive way and not belittle the contributions of others. It will make you and all those you interact with happier and makes for a better forum. Cheers Pulse Re: Adding void in renovation 12Dec 22, 2022 7:38 pm Hey pulse here in WA the majority of 60 yo Double brick Houses have suspended Concrete structural slabs to AS3600 Yes, engineers here modify and cut up suspended concrete slabs and council requires engineering details and certification for all structural changes. be it AS1720 structural timber (floors). AS3600 structural Concrete, As 4100 Structural Steel AS1684 will not pass the certified structural test.. adding voids is not a cookie cutter standard change Also if posters fail to put up additional information then it would be remiss of me as an engineer not to expect worse/assume case scenarios. OT Ask the council builder surveyor the correct process and post back Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Adding void in renovation 13Dec 23, 2022 9:09 am Pulse Your comment is not constructive. You’ve misrepresented my advice to make it sound stupid. This is the strawman fallacy. None of his comments are. and he is a narcissist, so what do you expect? Just keep calling him out for being a douchebag and maybe one day he'll get it. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Adding void in renovation 14Dec 23, 2022 9:15 am The only smartest thing you have ever said here was consult an engineer ..go figure Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Adding void in renovation 15Dec 23, 2022 9:23 am StructuralBIMGuy The only smartest thing you have ever said here was consult an engineer ..go figure i wish i could point to something smart you've said. Go figure indeed. HTH Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Not sure if that works? I was told the issue is the headspace clearance requirement on step 4. My builder is proposing shifting the beam 310mm towards the kitchen...I'm… 2 2699 To me, that's what it looks like: poor backfilling and/or compaction. The width is about 1000mm maybe. That conduit in the photo is for the NBN. 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