Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Apr 15, 2014 8:42 pm I am considering putting engineered timber floorboards in our new home. I love the real timber look, but at $150m2+ it is definitely out of our price range. The engineered flooring, I have so far been quoted $110m2 (plus $6m2 to upgrade to a rubber underlay instead of foam) - that is just out of our price range but I think I could get a bit creative with the budget to make it work. The flooring place I went to said you can sand it up to 4 times, but that no one ever does, or that they do it just before they sell. It is 4mm of real timber stuck on top of ply wood. I was wondering if anyone has engineered timber flooring, or has had it in the past, and what it is like to live with? Also - does jarrah show a lot of dust? Or is it quite good at camouflage? (I don't want a floor that looks dirty all the time) Re: Engineered timber flooring? 2Apr 21, 2014 4:55 pm We have it in our rental at the moment (are building). Have been here a year, and the floor is trashed. We have 2 kids, no pets, and don't wear shoe in the house. You just have to look at the floor and it scratches. If one of my kids drops a toy or a spoon etc, a big dent appears. Shockingly unsuitable for a family. Re: Engineered timber flooring? 3Apr 21, 2014 6:35 pm Thank you so much for responding Mrs Brown Bear. I have since sourced real jarrah floorboards, for a very similar price, so your comment has confirmed not to go for the engineered. I think the real timber will scratch too, but at least that can be sanded and polished. Re: Engineered timber flooring? 4Apr 22, 2014 11:56 pm How about bamboo? We got two samples from UB Trading. Looks decent and seem to be at par with two out of three samples we got from well known bamboo suppliers in Perth. Re: Engineered timber flooring? 5Apr 23, 2014 11:46 am I was really keen for bamboo seabreezewaikiki but the glue all the way through the boards puts me off (VOCs). I did find one that claims to be low VOC and that is probably fine, but I'm put off by it. Re: Engineered timber flooring? 6Apr 25, 2014 11:25 am i have just had merbau laid in lower level of entrance to house and have also ordered bamboo firestreak for the family area as a feature to our open plan area. so will be interesting to see how they stand up to wear and tear. Re: Engineered timber flooring? 8Apr 25, 2014 7:54 pm joyfulbuilder if you are considering resanding at any stage ditch the underlay and direct stick to the concrete. if its floating theres no way you can get an even sand because the floor will flex as the sander goes over it. Re: Engineered timber flooring? 9Jun 18, 2014 8:18 am mgilla joyfulbuilder if you are considering resanding at any stage ditch the underlay and direct stick to the concrete. if its floating theres no way you can get an even sand because the floor will flex as the sander goes over it. I'm sorry mgilla, This is extremely bad advice and just not true. If you get the cheapest quote to sand your floating floor, chances are the outfit have very little training and even less equipment. Watch our Perfect process video. You will see all the equipment we have and it is no problem sanding a floating floor dead flat. Not all sanding companies are equal. You should NEVER advise someone to Direct GLUE long lengths of timber to a concrete slab....It will FAIL!!! Timber is a natural product and swells and contracts over the seasons. If you direct glue a long length of timber, the pressure will build and it has to go somewhere. The beauty of a floating floor is I can give a 10,000 year guarantee it will never come unglued. It can move all it wants to. Secret nailing allows the board to actually move and even bend the nail. You cannot see this. However if the floor is professionally installed, which very few are these days, you can witness the secret expansion gaps disappear and re-appear over the seasons. Secret nailing the long lengths of T & G to a pine ply subfloor is the most stable specification. A little bit of knowledge is dangerous. Regards Mark Floor Sanding Brisbane with The Perfect Process. Only at Quicksand & Polish. Mark. Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/quicksandandpolish Re: Engineered timber flooring? 10Jun 18, 2014 8:29 am 1rocky i have just had merbau laid in lower level of entrance to house and have also ordered bamboo firestreak for the family area as a feature to our open plan area. so will be interesting to see how they stand up to wear and tear. Hi 1rocky, There are many bamboo's out there. Whilst the coating on some is quite hard, the bamboo itself can be quite soft. I had it in my office, for ten years. It dented if you dropped things on it. Yes if its heavy and sharpe enough all timbers will dent as well. But I likened the bamboo closer to Pines density. Whereas your merbau is a lot harder. I do realize today there are a lot denser bamboo's now. The ones they string and fill with glue, seem to be more impact resistant. However they are no good to resand, as the strings pull out and leave lines and pits and it is so thirsty you need to put 5 coats on it which will cost you a fortune. I'd stick with your merbau and or other hardwoods. I haven't heard of Firesteak, but we don't do much bamboo anymore. Floor Sanding Brisbane with The Perfect Process. Only at Quicksand & Polish. Mark. Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/quicksandandpolish Re: Engineered timber flooring? 12Jul 07, 2014 12:57 pm qsand mgilla joyfulbuilder if you are considering resanding at any stage ditch the underlay and direct stick to the concrete. if its floating theres no way you can get an even sand because the floor will flex as the sander goes over it. I'm sorry mgilla, This is extremely bad advice and just not true. If you get the cheapest quote to sand your floating floor, chances are the outfit have very little training and even less equipment. Watch our Perfect process video. You will see all the equipment we have and it is no problem sanding a floating floor dead flat. Not all sanding companies are equal. You should NEVER advise someone to Direct GLUE long lengths of timber to a concrete slab....It will FAIL!!! Timber is a natural product and swells and contracts over the seasons. If you direct glue a long length of timber, the pressure will build and it has to go somewhere. The beauty of a floating floor is I can give a 10,000 year guarantee it will never come unglued. It can move all it wants to. Secret nailing allows the board to actually move and even bend the nail. You cannot see this. However if the floor is professionally installed, which very few are these days, you can witness the secret expansion gaps disappear and re-appear over the seasons. Secret nailing the long lengths of T & G to a pine ply subfloor is the most stable specification. A little bit of knowledge is dangerous. Regards Mark Interesting... I'm also trying to decide on wood engineered or real, v tiles. On the weekend at a timber direct flooring place I was told that you can't sand engineered timber placed on a foam, due to the movement, and also the thinness of the engineered timber on top of the planks. They said that they glue the real timber to the floorboards but you do have to watch out for colour changes (have experienced this in a house before with mats etc). They also mentioned some potential warping etc for engineered or laminate due to them not liking moisture at all, and leaving white milky marks in the sealer/coating. I found the two men at the company very arrogant and borderline rude, so in the end walked out thinking, even if I went with timber, it wouldn't be with them... Re: Engineered timber flooring? 13Jul 09, 2014 3:34 pm Beazley77 qsand mgilla joyfulbuilder if you are considering resanding at any stage ditch the underlay and direct stick to the concrete. if its floating theres no way you can get an even sand because the floor will flex as the sander goes over it. I'm sorry mgilla, This is extremely bad advice and just not true. If you get the cheapest quote to sand your floating floor, chances are the outfit have very little training and even less equipment. Watch our Perfect process video. You will see all the equipment we have and it is no problem sanding a floating floor dead flat. Not all sanding companies are equal. You should NEVER advise someone to Direct GLUE long lengths of timber to a concrete slab....It will FAIL!!! Timber is a natural product and swells and contracts over the seasons. If you direct glue a long length of timber, the pressure will build and it has to go somewhere. The beauty of a floating floor is I can give a 10,000 year guarantee it will never come unglued. It can move all it wants to. Secret nailing allows the board to actually move and even bend the nail. You cannot see this. However if the floor is professionally installed, which very few are these days, you can witness the secret expansion gaps disappear and re-appear over the seasons. Secret nailing the long lengths of T & G to a pine ply subfloor is the most stable specification. A little bit of knowledge is dangerous. Regards Mark Interesting... I'm also trying to decide on wood engineered or real, v tiles. On the weekend at a timber direct flooring place I was told that you can't sand engineered timber placed on a foam, due to the movement, and also the thinness of the engineered timber on top of the planks. They said that they glue the real timber to the floorboards but you do have to watch out for colour changes (have experienced this in a house before with mats etc). They also mentioned some potential warping etc for engineered or laminate due to them not liking moisture at all, and leaving white milky marks in the sealer/coating. I found the two men at the company very arrogant and borderline rude, so in the end walked out thinking, even if I went with timber, it wouldn't be with them... Did you go to Direct Flooring in Osborne Park? I also found the staff extremely arrogant and condescending. Even though they offered the cheapest quote for the product I wanted, I walked out of there. One staff member tried to 'educate' me on how to calculate floor areas. I am a qualified, practicing engineer who does not need to told how to do basic math! I found the attitude very unnerving. Back to Mark's comment about floating floors, thank you for your insight. What you said makes sense. There's so much advice out there, much of it contradicting. Does it sand, not sand? Direct or float? Is 10mm, 12mm 14mm? Which one is better? Coatings, waterproofing... ugh the whole thing gives me a headache. I just wanted some nice solid timber spotted gum floors that won't send me bankrupt. Why is it so hard? Re: Engineered timber flooring? 14Jul 24, 2014 3:30 pm mgilla Hi qsand, your obviously in the industry so you know what your talking about, but I do question why a 16mm hardwood (4mm veneer on 12mm ply) click type floor system can't be direct stuck. Hi mgilla, An engineered product can be direct stuck. That is not Solid timber, rather a ply. Also engineered boards are Not long lengths of timber. Usually they are cut from a sheet of ply, so they are 2440 Maximum length. So you have two things on your side. 1. they are short, and 2. they are cross layered for stability. Timber swells and contracts 10 times more sideways than it does length ways. So by layering a man made ply they change direction with each layer in the hope of making it far more stable. This and with the shorter lengths allows it to be direct stuck. Very different from Solid T & G. That can be up to 6000 long or 8000 with recycled, and should never be stuck down. The thing with direct gluing timber floors is, you get hollow pockets and they sound drummy. They don't sound warm like a solid floor that has been secret nailed to a ply base. Floating engineered floors is a sound method. If you don't mind the visual of the floor moving when someone walks past. If a floor is not stuck down it can never become unstuck. Vynal is not stuck down these days either. It is loose laid. It doesn't go anywhere. Your timber floor weighs a lot more, so it won't float away. If you have the height allowance, the strongest , longest lasting specification is to have a minimum 15 mm pine ply sub floor , Ramset to slab, after putting down the 200um Black plastic. Then secret nail the 80 x 19 real solid T & G. If you have the money and the height, that is the best way. Then you start to compromise on the way down from there. Some compromises you can live with. Depends on the individual. Hope this helps. Regards Mark Floor Sanding Brisbane with The Perfect Process. Only at Quicksand & Polish. Mark. Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/quicksandandpolish Re: Engineered timber flooring? 15Jul 24, 2014 3:55 pm PanRaptor Back to Mark's comment about floating floors, thank you for your insight. What you said makes sense. There's so much advice out there, much of it contradicting. Does it sand, not sand? Direct or float? Is 10mm, 12mm 14mm? Which one is better? Coatings, waterproofing... ugh the whole thing gives me a headache. I just wanted some nice solid timber spotted gum floors that won't send me bankrupt. Why is it so hard? Hi PanRaptor, Yes its a mine field. The biggest thing is to check the side on profile. If you see thickness in the top layer of more than 3mm it can be sanded and polished. When you think about it, a 19 mm thick T & G board is really only 6 mm thick on top of the groove. So your sand-able meat thickness is about 5 mm. Beyond that the tongue splits and its time for an overlay. When you secret nail a 19 mm board to 15 mm pine ply, you have a 34mm height. Extremely stable floor. The engineers looked at it and said lets take out the middle and call it one product. So they kept a sandable meat thickness on top attached that to the ply. So depending on the quality and cost is how thick the sandable layer is, and how thick the total product is. Some engineered floors are 6 mm sand-able thikness on top and total 20 mm thick. Its less that the 34 mm of two separate products. Right down to the 14 mm ones with 3mm or 4mm thickness on top. Then come the cheapies that have a 1 mm veneer on top, these ones cannot be sanded. That is why they are cheaper. Not worth it. Time goes by very fast. Rather than a sand and polish, you are up for a pull up. Labour intensive. Remove skirts and repaint wall even. Very expensive. Best to pay a little more up font for one that can be a re-sand and polish in the future. My 20c worth. Cheers. Floor Sanding Brisbane with The Perfect Process. Only at Quicksand & Polish. Mark. Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/quicksandandpolish Re: Engineered timber flooring? 17Jul 25, 2014 4:43 pm Hey JB1, My partner and I are about to build with MacDonald Jones and if we don't want to pay extra we need to keep the profile of the timber floors under 30mm. We were thinking of laying the same as you have, and I have a couple of questions... 1. Who did you get the 14mm solid overlay from? 2. What was the thickness of your ply? 3. What's the width of the board. 4. Did you lay over a concrete slab? 5. Can you post a photo of the flooring layed?? Thanks!!! Re: Engineered timber flooring? 18Jul 25, 2014 10:19 pm Mrs Brown Bear We have it in our rental at the moment (are building). Have been here a year, and the floor is trashed. We have 2 kids, no pets, and don't wear shoe in the house. You just have to look at the floor and it scratches. If one of my kids drops a toy or a spoon etc, a big dent appears. Shockingly unsuitable for a family. Depends on the quality of the flooring, also, this is not a floor I would recommend for rentals. Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Engineered timber flooring? 19Jul 25, 2014 11:22 pm jk0283 1. Who did you get the 14mm solid overlay from? 2. What was the thickness of your ply? 3. What's the width of the board. 4. Did you lay over a concrete slab? 5. Can you post a photo of the flooring layed?? Thanks!!! Hurfords 12mm ply 180mm, random length from 0.6 to 5m Yup- Builders plastic, ply, glue and secret nailed. Top nailed on end boards. 10mm gap all round and then skirting boards on top I can't show you a photo 'layed' but I can show you it 'laid' High gloss polyurethane but doesn't look like this anymore due to a son who doesn't show much respect for the flooring! Haha but I can sand and polish it at least another 5-6 times and it will look brand new again Why would it cost you more for >30mm? Re: Engineered timber flooring? 20Jul 26, 2014 1:03 pm WOW JB1 that floor looks amaze-balls!! That's exactly the finish we want for our new house. Mac Jones flooring policy gives you two options. First leave skirting off in the rooms you want to install flooring after handover at no charge but you only have a clearance of 30mm under the already hung doors & you install the skirt yourself. Second option is they let our builder go in to install flooring during the construction phase, then they install arcs, doors & skirt after the flooring is laid. The builder only gets 14 days to complete the install. Plus they wont take any responsibility for the condition of the floor when they hand over to us after practical completion which I understand but is a risk. It costs $3k extra to do this option. Do you think the 14mm solid overlay flooring would suit Mac Jones option 1? Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 15884 Thanks Simon, I guess I'm no concerned with the volume of the noise rather that dead and hollow sound and feel that is associated with floating floors. But I'm not sure… 3 6112 1000000% definitely add insulation. I have in my home and it makes a big difference minimising sound transfer. Insulation is pretty cheap and definitely worth it 2 6173 |