Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 May 11, 2008 4:33 pm All,
There have been a number of queries about what underlay is best to install under your carpets for best performance. After researching this in more detail, and consulting with a number of reliable experts, I thought I'd share this recommendation... http://www.airstep.com.au/products/data/prime.aspx Bridgestone prime underlay is a sheet rubber underlay, (orange in colour) and for stretch in installations, (the way most domestic carpets are fitted) this is about the best product you can choose. Expect it to cost a bit more than the regular types, but it would be money well spent. Hope that helps! Ash. Re: PRIME carpet underlay 2May 11, 2008 4:44 pm Hi Ash,
We've decided to go with the standard carpet supplied by our builder - a 50/50 sisal type carpet. We figured we could change it in a few years to something of bettyer quality. I much prefer 80/20 twist. My question is whether we should have the builder supply a top range underlay with the std carpet ? OR would that be a waste of money (variation) if we're going to change the carpet in a few years, at which time the underlay can alos be changed ? What's your sage advice ? Built the Eden Brae Cambridge 34 Family with Boston Corner Facade Re: PRIME carpet underlay 3May 11, 2008 4:52 pm That's what we did Southies....
We just got the best standard carpet through the builder and upgraded to the best underlay, only cost an extra $400. There is nothing that says you can't negotiate with suppliers..... and that is what we did.... Gav & Vanessa Building In Melbourne (Sth East Suburbs) http://www.arkraider.blogspot.com/ Rawdon Hill Construction - Canterbury Heritage Re: PRIME carpet underlay 4May 11, 2008 4:59 pm Hi Southies,
Suggest you fit new (quality) underlay when you fit the carpets you want later. If you are fitting the cheaper carpets firstly, either a budget underlay, or even direct stick the cheaper carpets to the floor (instead of stretch in) might be best. When it comes to the fitting of quality carpets that you want to last, I'd suggest these specifications; Make sure the sub-floor is very smooth and plane and clean. Have commercial smoothedge fitted (has 3 rows of pins) instead of standard (2 rows of pins). Fit Bridgestone Prime underlay. Make sure a qualified layer lays the carpets to AS2455.1:2007 (insist it is power-stretched). Laying new carpet over used underlay is NOT a good move, and is against Standards that specify an underlay must have an expected lifespan of at least that of the carpet being fitted. Cheers! Ash. Re: PRIME carpet underlay 5May 11, 2008 10:54 pm Thanks Ash, as usual you offer great advice & will take it on board most enthusiastically
Arkraider - thanks for taking the time to offer your experience Built the Eden Brae Cambridge 34 Family with Boston Corner Facade Re: PRIME carpet underlay 7Jul 23, 2008 10:28 pm The new url for that product is: http://www.airstep.com.au/residential/r ... erlay.aspx Re: PRIME carpet underlay 8Jul 31, 2008 4:27 pm Just found this thread as I've had our carpet quote "revisited". We are having a Cavalier Bremworth 100% wool carpet, called 'Tarascan' -so not a cheap one!! Having chosen a good quality carpet, and having 4 kids whose bedrooms and living areas are all upstairs I wanted to make sure we had the carpet laid on equally good quality underlay. The guy who owns the shop from which we're purchasing the carpet recommended ' Dunlop flooring Springtred Ultimate ', which is a dense rubber underlay, and what he has in his home....so I'm presuming it's decent quality!!! I'd be interested in your opinions, Ash and carpet experts! Thanks!!! Solidarity, not solidity.......The Lexicon of Life Re: PRIME carpet underlay 9Jul 31, 2008 9:17 pm Petal,
I'd be interested to know if that underlay is good. That's the underlay that *** is also using. If we go with them, we might have to choose that underlay too. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Built the Nevada 42 Next project - landscaping! Re: PRIME carpet underlay 11Aug 05, 2008 7:14 pm Quote: Carpet people??? Hellooooooo!!!! Thought I'd just bump this one back up, VJ!!!! yes, we're still waiting for some answers here... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Built the Nevada 42 Next project - landscaping! Re: PRIME carpet underlay 13Aug 08, 2008 8:25 pm Quote: I don't think they love us, VJ!!!! you think so??? wwwaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Built the Nevada 42 Next project - landscaping! Re: PRIME carpet underlay 14Aug 10, 2008 5:37 pm Petal and VJ,
I'm replying on behalf of Ash. He is off the forum at the moment but he sent me this answer to post for you guys. I just hope I don't stuff it up. "Petal smell the underlay. I wouldn't use it in my home. The 'ultrafresh' in it is an antimicrobial based on tributyltin. It's a heavy metal. It eminates this chemical. Bed your cav brem on 'prime' underlay as I have stated on the forum. And Petal...x. Ash" Then later he sent me a message that said try googling tributyltin. Jo (on behalf of Ash) I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: PRIME carpet underlay 16Aug 10, 2008 9:40 pm joles Petal and VJ, smell the underlay. I wouldn't use it in my home. The 'ultrafresh' in it is an antimicrobial based on tributyltin. It's a heavy metal. It eminates this chemical. Jo (on behalf of Ash) I'm sure Bridgestone Prime is an excellent underlay but I think Ash is being a little harsh on Dunlop's Springtred. The fact that it's treated with Ultra-Fresh is a plus not a negative, particularly if you have any concerns regarding dust mites, allergies and asthma. While Ultra-Fresh might contain a derivative of Tributylin that doesn't make it non eco-friendly or unsafe. Any environmental issues/problems with the Tributylin compound are primarily centred around its use in marine anti-foulings, where it's used in very high concentrations and is suspected (but not proven) of affecting marine life. It's use as an anti-microbial agent in thousands of domestic products is not the same thing at all. And definitely not in underlays, where it is perfectly safe. Just because something is a 'heavy metal' does not automatically make it bad. Dunlop Springtred is actually 'green' accredited by a number of agencies in fact, as are many other products containing Ultra-Fresh. And the Queensland government specified it for their 'Research House' project which is a major "sustainable housing" project that gives considerable weight to creating a building with zero indoor air pollution/emissions. I suspect they would not have specified it had there been any doubt about its environmental credentials. More practically, Springtred is used by most carpet suppliers so is rather cheaper than Bridgestone Prime. Whether one is a better underlay than the other I have no idea but dismissing one of the most widely used and good quality underlays merely because it uses an anti-microbial agent seems a little unfair. Re: PRIME carpet underlay 17Aug 12, 2008 8:22 pm Hi Ancient Mariner!
Not sure what your agenda is with this issue, but it is a fair thing for you to defend the Dunlop underlay I guess! It is (as you say) quite widely accepted as a good underlay. I was asked my opinion, and gave it. I wouldn't use it. I'm not convinced the chemicals that are emitted from the underlay are safe. I had to buy some Springtred to fit to a water damaged carpet job recently, and had the underlay in my truck for a week. Every time I opened my truck, the smell of the stuff hit me. It eminates from the product, and I have some understanding of how it works. Sure, the stuff gassing off does inhibit microbial action, but it could be argued that this isn't necessary. A toxicologist I know is not convinced it is safe, and I know the EPA in America has banned TBT from use in the marine environment because of compelling evidence that it was causing contamination and damage to marine organisms. I can't see what makes 'ultrafresh' different, as it does contain TBT from my understanding. What makes you so sure that the underlay is totally safe? Ash. Re: PRIME carpet underlay 18Aug 12, 2008 9:33 pm No agenda at all Ash. I have no connection with either Ultra-Fresh or any carpet underlay manufacturer and never have. I do know a bit about chemical compounds and how they relate to environmental issues however and I just thought it fair to point out that the TBT derivatives used in Ultra-Fresh are well proven to be at safe levels.
It's always a personal choice of course and individuals must weigh up for themselves the pros and cons of any manufactured product that contains additives/treatments such as Ultra-Fresh. In fact the current crop of Ultra-Fresh products (there's a wide range) have no VOCs in them at all. Personally I'd have no problem with underlay containing the product. I'd see the advantages of reducing dust mites & other asthma and allergy producing elements as far outweighing the very, very small risk that the small amounts of TBT used in these products might present. Dust mites particularly can be a big health risk, as you would know. Ultra-Fresh has been around for over 50 years and, AFAIK, there has been no toxicology problems reported. The odd individual might be allergic to it but that's about all. You have almost certainly been living with it in a number of products in your home for years without even knowing it -- mattresses, linen, clothing etc, etc. It's very widely used. If you wear socks it's probably in them! Like all such products it's come under scrutiny often but I don't know of any study that's reported health risks in its use in domestic products. It's the opposite -- organisations like Asthma councils and health departments have endorsed its use, particularly in bed linen and floor coverings. And it is registered with the EPA, for these uses. I guess that what made me defend it was the connection you made between TBT in marine coatings and anti-foulings and its domestic use. While it uses the same basic compound it's used in a very different way/concentration for marine use. The evidence that it causes damage to the marine environment is pretty strong and I agree it's best to err on the side of caution in that area. But that's an entirely different set of circumstances in a complex equation between the actions of seawater and the marine life that lives on the hulls of ships and the TBT compound they're coated with. It's just not likely that you can get the same effect when it's used in an inert material like a rubber underlay. I just don't think you can make the leap from its use in marine compounds to assuming that it's unsafe in all of its uses. Like everything else, it's a balance between its advantages and disadvantages. And, while it might outgass sufficiently to create an odour in your truck that's only to be expected while it's new and in a confined space. The other concern I had was with the use of the phrase 'heavy metals.' That's become an emotive term associated with some specific and very dangerous compounds, and they scare people. The reality is that heavy metal covers a large range of compounds, some of which are very useful and helpful, and eco-friendly to boot. I wasn't trying to argue with you here. I respect your opinion and your right to express it. At the same time, everyone here listens very carefully to anything you say regarding carpets. I just thought it fair to point out that there's another side to Ultra-Fresh (and other similar anti-microbial products). Alan Re: PRIME carpet underlay 19Aug 13, 2008 10:02 am Alan, very well said!
It is (more than anything else) my personal inclination to 'err on the side of caution' in this regard. Having a son with autism, and having learned the role that toxins in the environment can play in a whole range of conditions, gives me the perspective that we shouldn't be too complacent. Keeping carpets and indoor air quality clean and healthy is my business and my concern. Yes, different factors must all be kept in balance. I have little more to add to this matter. Thanks for your input, Alan. Ash. Re: PRIME carpet underlay 20Aug 13, 2008 8:04 pm Thank you both for your very detailed responses!!! I know I will take both of your arguments on board (as I'm sure VJ will!) I think I will go down to the local carpet place that is laying the carpet (the one I chose b/c it's a local, family run business that's been there for 50 yrs) and speak to the owner about the underlay. He was the one who actually recommended the Dunlop, and said that he has it in his house (he has 2 young children, too). I certainly respect his opinion, so it will be interesting to hear his take on the issue as well! Thanks again! Solidarity, not solidity.......The Lexicon of Life Hi l plan to install a self adhesive vinyl plank floor. l first need to attach masonite boards underlay to by plywood subfloor of my house. What size nails and how many… 0 8356 Jimbo73 I would use heaps of adhesive on each sheet and screw rather than nail. use as many as you like cheers Simeon 1 4046 1 10973 |