Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering Re: solid timber boards on a slab 21Nov 16, 2011 8:06 pm To me direct sticking to the concrete would be the only way to go, same as when we do for parquetry, cork, vinyl, ceramics etc. We don't adhere anything to concrete without grinding the slab 1st. You should do a moisture test as thats the minimum for Australian Standards. No more than 1mm over 150mm or 6mm over 3m. Moisture Fix or Densi proof the slab, flood coat with K15 or similar then a quick hit with the Polyvac with Supa Sander head the next day & off you go direct sticking to your hearts content. I can't understand why anyone would stick plywood over a timber floor, it just seems unprofessional to me. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 23Nov 17, 2011 10:15 am plywood over timber floor what a waste. Your supposed to put plywood under a timber floor. Plywood under timber floor allows you to nail anywhere you want. In the end you get tighter finish. Don't ask a chippy this. They usually used to working with greater tolerances. Ask a cabinet maker who has done the floor himself or maybe ask a floor sander if he notices the difference. Plywood also allows u to use thicker board. Thick boards are better as they a less likely to move as much, and are more stiff. In the end it all comes down to what your expectations of a floor is. I have done mine on 18mm plywood with solid 19mm boards and at night it looks like one piece of glass. Perfectly sealed and closed up. I have dropped water on it many times due to leaking water and there hasn't been any cupping yet. I was pleasantly surprised. I have seen a job done that was direct stick and there were gaps everywere (perhaps less than 0.5mm) however they where viable on the butt joins and the adjacent joins. In the end like i have said many times it comes down to what your expectation is on wood floors. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 24Nov 17, 2011 9:08 pm 1sthome We had our solid floor laid over ply, old floorboards and baterns in different places. All glued and secret nailed. I thought that direct stick onto concrete feels different to joists. You are correct, it certainly does feel different & that is a valid choice or reason to go different ways. You will have some spring or deflection when installed on battens compared to a direct stick install. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 25Nov 17, 2011 9:59 pm B STAR plywood over timber floor what a waste. Your supposed to put plywood under a timber floor. Plywood under timber floor allows you to nail anywhere you want. In the end you get tighter finish. Don't ask a chippy this. They usually used to working with greater tolerances. Ask a cabinet maker who has done the floor himself or maybe ask a floor sander if he notices the difference. Plywood also allows u to use thicker board. Thick boards are better as they a less likely to move as much, and are more stiff. In the end it all comes down to what your expectations of a floor is. I have done mine on 18mm plywood with solid 19mm boards and at night it looks like one piece of glass. Perfectly sealed and closed up. I have dropped water on it many times due to leaking water and there hasn't been any cupping yet. I was pleasantly surprised. I have seen a job done that was direct stick and there were gaps everywere (perhaps less than 0.5mm) however they where viable on the butt joins and the adjacent joins. In the end like i have said many times it comes down to what your expectation is on wood floors. I'd say your spot on & I don't have a clue... Re: solid timber boards on a slab 26Nov 19, 2011 1:44 am B STAR Don't ask a chippy this. They usually used to working with greater tolerances. Ask a cabinet maker who has done the floor himself or maybe ask a floor sander if he notices the difference. Plywood also allows u to use thicker board. Thick boards are better as they a less likely to move as much, and are more stiff. HaHa! Your funny. Maybe I should buy a tape measure with mm's instead of cm's on it. Do you get paid to lay floors? I do. Direct stick, wether it be 12,14 or 19mm is a completely acceptable method of laying a floor and gives you a high quality finish. I have a friend who is a sander and guess how he asked me to install his floor? Direct stick A good installer will get a good finish wether it be direct stick or plank on ply. If they cant then they shouldn't be laying floors. If you want to add over 30mm to your floor height (and the added issues that brings) plus add extra cost then certainly go plank on ply. I'm happy if people want to pay me more to install their floor. But seriously, their is no real valid reason in a normal situation aside from people wanting to feel that they have the best option to go plank on ply. BStar I'm pleased you think your floor is so good, that's the way my customers feel as well. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 27Nov 20, 2011 7:53 pm chippy i don't lay floor for a living admittedly i couldn't afford to. I wouldn't make any money, i am to fussy. When I was getting quoted for my floor i kept of having the floor finishing guys keep calling me up asking about whether I had given the job out. I got feed up and asked why were you so interested in the job. Basically he told me he doesn't normally see a floor laid as good as mind and wait to be the person that does the job, he couldn't wait to see the finished result . This guy was real passionate about his work. He took over three days sanding slowly on his own. Most other people that have done there floors only take a day to sand. This guy was a second generation floor sander With regards to your customers being happy with there floors I admit some people don't know any better, and you are really just doing what every other installer does. The real test is really the test of time. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 28Nov 22, 2011 12:12 am BStar, I'm sure your floor is fantastic. My point is that if you had done your floor direct stick it still would have been fantastic. A poorly laid floor is a poorly laid floor regardless of method, a quality floor will look good and stand the test of time regardless of method. I find your comment about people "not knowing better" slightly arrogant, almost like you are the arbiter of quality. Believe me, most people know a good job when they see it. 3 days to sand a floor is pretty standard so I dont think your floor sander was doing your job any more carefully than average. My 19mm direct stick took over 3 days to sand and finish. Regarding the real test being the test of time, that quite simply has nothing to do with the method of installation and everything to do with type of timber and finish and the amount of wear and tear. To be honest I don't care what flooring method people choose, that is their decision. I just dont like it when someone intimates that their method is the only way to do it properly and all other choices are just sub-standard, when that clearly isn't the case. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 29Nov 22, 2011 7:44 am Hi Chippy i am surprised you haven't asked the question how large the floor area is. After all sanding time is dependent on the floor area. So you fell into that trap. I must say I have been very impressed with the quality of work which I see on the forums in Perth. Sometimes I believe that the quality of trades is much higher in WA. Perhaps direct stick is a suitable option there. Slabs in vic are not very level most of the time, and traded people are very quick when they want to lay floors. I guess my point all along has been that it is much easier to get a quality job with having plywood down first. Also I prefer that way that you can have a physical barrier in terms o f 200um plastic that you can almost be certain that it has been layed correctly. You must admit the paint on moisture barrier is very expensive and I have preferred to spend the money on underlay. Regarding me being arrogant, I am sure it comes across as being that way I can t help this. However sometimes it is the truth. People always have different levels of expectations. In regards to flooring I do not want to see any gaps between boards. Either at the butt joins or adjacent joins, no matter how small. Having installed my own flooring with fairly hard timber I always struggle to imagine how you can achieve this on direct stick if you cant nail each board down. There had been times where i have needed to use a mesh hammer, then chisel to move boards into position and then use the secret nailer to get the boards home. If this didnt happen the board will open up. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 30Nov 23, 2011 1:06 am B STAR Hi Chippy i am surprised you haven't asked the question how large the floor area is. After all sanding time is dependent on the floor area. So you fell into that trap. I didn't realise I was being trapped. You are the one who didn't state how big your floor is when you're the one trying to make a point. Maybe you trapped yourself B STAR I guess my point all along has been that it is much easier to get a quality job with having plywood down first. Also I prefer that way that you can have a physical barrier in terms o f 200um plastic that you can almost be certain that it has been layed correctly. You must admit the paint on moisture barrier is very expensive and I have preferred to spend the money on underlay. I guess my point all along is that you dont know. From the sounds of it you've installed one floor (plank on ply) and you now talk as though you are an experienced installer. Maybe after you've installed a few floors direct stick your arguments will hold a little more validity. The moisture barrier used for direct stick is a physical barrier. Once it's applied it forms a solid impervious layer B STAR Regarding me being arrogant, I am sure it comes across as being that way I can t help this. Yes you can B STAR In regards to flooring I do not want to see any gaps between boards. Either at the butt joins or adjacent joins, no matter how small. Having installed my own flooring with fairly hard timber I always struggle to imagine how you can achieve this on direct stick if you cant nail each board down. There had been times where i have needed to use a mesh hammer, then chisel to move boards into position and then use the secret nailer to get the boards home. If this didnt happen the board will open up. And this statement shows that you really don't understand. Direct stick boards are fixed down as needed. All professional installers will use clamps as required regardless of method, it's much easier than straining with chisels and mashing hammers just to make sure you don't get gaps. No one wants to see gaps. BStar from your other posts (in other threads) I can see you are no fool. You obviously have some knowledge of the building industry. You're certainly entitled to your opinion (as is everyone) however you need to realise that when you make bold assertions like you have you may be called out by people who have REAL practical skills. Anyway, I think that the OP's question has well and truely been answered so I'll let you have the last say and I'll sign out of this one. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 solid timber boards on a slab 31Nov 23, 2011 3:08 am Chippy, we have a beautifully level slab and I've seen your work, would love it if u could quote us when we are at the stage of laying the floors... Along with the kitchen cupboards !! Building our own custom design with Redink Pre-start - 28/06/2011 Building license approval - sept 2011 Footings - 8/10/2011 my thread - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48921 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 32Nov 23, 2011 7:29 am Chippy like you I could see where this argument was heading from the start. I am an Aries and we like to ram heads lol. The truth is in Vic it doesn't occur like you say with clamps etc. At least I haven't seen it, And the direct stick floors boards have been open. Then again I have seen similar issues on floors layed over ply. This is why they normally use the thinner no structial boards are the tongue and grove interconnect loosely. Then again with clamping I would be concerned about buckling but lets not go there. Though I do agree that with experience you can get as good result. Though I am yet to see this is Victoria. I do not think we work to the same level of quality over here which is a same. I consider my argument to be realistic and formed on what I see happening in the real world( Well my world). I am sometimes pessimistic by nature and like to consider what will happen if things go wrong. The argument with plywood underlay is that less things can go wrong. If that is because I am not as experienced in you trade well fair enough. Carpentry isn't my full time trade, but i have never stop in giving it a go. see the link for some issues that are more likely to occur with direct stick. http://www.a1flooring.com.au/index.php/ ... lid-timber The thing I notice around here is that trades people are more concerned about home much money they can make and not the quality of work!!!! Re: solid timber boards on a slab 33Nov 24, 2011 8:02 pm Leona Chippy, we have a beautifully level slab and I've seen your work, would love it if u could quote us when we are at the stage of laying the floors... Along with the kitchen cupboards !! Leona. Happy to have a look for you. Send me a PM when your ready. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 34Jan 24, 2012 11:28 pm Bringing up an old thread. In WA seems like direct stick is preferred with 12mm + timber. However what about 10mm thick timber that seems to be widely available. I have heard that direct stick is still just as good. Conversely I have also heard that there may be more movement/cupping as it is too thin and so plank on ply is recommended for 10mm but direct stick for 12mm +. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 35Mar 05, 2012 9:25 am Just thought I'd add my experience to the conversation. I'm currently getting my floorboards sorted out ready for installation in a couple of months. The guy we've been dealing with has said that for some timber types he will do a direct stick installation, but for "more aggressive" timbers he will require a 12mm ply underlay. Our build is in Melbourne, and it wouldn't suprise me if standards varied from state to state, as you're dealing with completely different moisture and temperature levels. I can't remember which ones he listed as timber he would direct stick, but we're using spotted gum, which is not in that list, so we'll have to have the ply. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 36Mar 13, 2012 11:43 am Hi Guys, I'm interested in direct stick timber flooring rather than a "plastic looking" floating floor for my new home. I've got height issues with some adjoining rooms and some glass slding doors. The 11/13mm height on direct stick is about the same as tiles and could solve my problem. How do I find a reliable quality supplier/installer in Sydney. It doesn't seem to be very popular in this city. I've had some definite No's in the two shops i've been to so far. Any tips or recommendations? Thanks! Re: solid timber boards on a slab 37Mar 13, 2012 12:46 pm Try chatting with Troy at Alex Lind, he may have some contacts for you. Direct stick is much more popular in WA and NZ than in the Eastern states because of the sandy soils which mean most sub-floors are concrete. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 38Mar 15, 2012 9:46 pm We are still trying to decide on which type of flooring to go through out home, at present we have ceramic tiles, they are being pulled up on Monday next week, and they are then going to sand off any of the tile cement that will still be on the slab. I know there will be holes in some places due to the removal process, so they have told us we will need to put down a levelling compound to rectify this. We have so far looked at vinyl planks, they would be great as they would be able to go in to the wet areas, Bathroom and Laundry, but I have not found one that really looks like timber. Another option we are discussing is bamboo flooring, the issue with this is that it can't be sanded, and if it gets scratched, what do you do? Our other options in either engineered flooring or solid, these two last options are the most expensive, but they can be sanded in years to come. What to do..... What to do???? We have been told with direct sticking to concrete slab after it has already had tiles glued to it is not successful. I cannot understand this as if we are putting down a levelling compound, then if we have a moisture barrier, why wouldn't the timber, engineered or bamboo stay stuck? Also, could you please suggest the cheapest places in Victoria to purchase timber, bamboo or engineered flooring. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 39Mar 16, 2012 9:56 am Solid bamboo most certainly can be sanded. It can be treated exactly the same as any other hardwood flooring. If it gets scratched over time, it just gets sanded and re-coated with polyurethane, and voila, good as new. Settlement 1/2/12 New Shed 23/3/12 Slab poured 27/3/12 Frame complete 4/5/12 Roof complete 1/6/12 LOCKUP 29/6/12 Our new build blog http://kareenhillsownerbuild.blogspot.com/ Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 15905 If this is a custom build then I would expect the builder to set out the door frame closer to the wall to avoid the gap between architrave and the wall and or specify… 9 8306 |