Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Oct 17, 2011 1:54 pm Hi, We are thinking about going for solid timber boards, are they able to be layed directly onto a slab or do i need to battern the floor up or apply some sort of ply or underlay first? Re: solid timber boards on a slab 4Oct 17, 2011 10:21 pm Donuts, the vast majority of timber floors in WA are directly stuck to the concrete. As wrexter said, you paint on a moisture barrier first then the boards are stuck straight on. I'm a carpenter and have installed many floors like this. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a valid reason as to why you would need to go plank on ply. It just seems like doubling up for no reason. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 5Oct 18, 2011 7:37 am chippy Donuts, the vast majority of timber floors in WA are directly stuck to the concrete. As wrexter said, you paint on a moisture barrier first then the boards are stuck straight on. I'm a carpenter and have installed many floors like this. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a valid reason as to why you would need to go plank on ply. It just seems like doubling up for no reason. The quality of the job you can obtain with going onto ply first is much higher. You can have you boards much tighter when you are on ply and can nail as often as you like. With hard boards like blackbutt, spotted gum and especially Ironbark it is very difficult and even messy to do a neat job. I guess it all comes down to the level of quality your after. I guess people have different expectations. The other reasons are if the floor is not relatively level you can get areas where the glue isnt actually doing anything. I now people over time where they have hollow spots and thy can press on the board and it moves. No biggy really. There is also the insulation factor. 12/14 on slab in winter you can still feel the cold of the slab coming through. Again no biggy. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 6Oct 18, 2011 1:21 pm The quality of the job comes down to the layer. I've seen crap plank on ply. A good layer will get the boards nice and tight regardless of what it is laid on, a poor layer will have gaps regardless. The hollows in the floor are also no issue as a competent layer will make sure the boards are pulled down onto the glue while it sets off. Once the glue is set you'll never lift the board. And the insulation factor??? I don't know about that. The concrete in a house stays pretty constant in temp as it is sitting on the ground. I would seriously doubt you could feel the difference between the 2 methods in blind testing, or maybe that's because I'm in Perth and we dont get as cold. Plank on ply also has the issue of height variation between other floor finishes. B Star, the only area I could possibly see plank on ply having the advantage is with the fixings. Direct stick requires the use of 3mm concrete nails to hold it down where as plank on ply can be nailed with a pin gun so the fixings are less obvious. However you dont need that many nails to hold the boards with direct stick (the glue does all the work) and after being filled and coated you hardly notice them anyway. For the price difference I just cant see any practical reason to add the ply into the mix. I could have laid either method in our new home but just went with direct stick because it works and looks great. I'd dare the average person to look at our floor and be able to tell what method I used. Having said that our stairs are plank on ply as you need to box out the concrete steps to get them all the same size. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 7Oct 18, 2011 5:20 pm What sort of glue do you use and does it stick ok on the moisture stuff you have to apply? Also what is the moisture stuff called? I'm sure my mate who is doing it knows all this stuff but just want to make sure it's done right Re: solid timber boards on a slab 8Oct 18, 2011 5:20 pm What sort of glue do you use and does it stick ok on the moisture stuff you have to apply? Also what is the moisture stuff called? I'm sure my mate who is doing it knows all this stuff but just want to make sure it's done right Re: solid timber boards on a slab 9Oct 18, 2011 10:59 pm Donuts. I like the Sika products. Sika MB is the moisture barrier. It's a 2 part mix, just mix together with a power paint mixer for a few minutes and then roll on. It forms a beautifull blue coating that looks like the ocean when set the next morning. You then start laying the next day, using the Sika T55 adhesive and a notched trowel. Just make sure you apply the glue at the specified rate. There are other brands you can use (bostik, selleys) just make sure whatever adhesive you use that you use the corresponding MB. The adhesive is polyurathane and sticks like the proverbial. Dont wear good clothes when you are installing and wear lightweight gloves so you dont get your hands covered in the stuff, it's very hard to get off. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 10Oct 19, 2011 8:38 am chippy The quality of the job comes down to the layer. I've seen crap plank on ply. A good layer will get the boards nice and tight regardless of what it is laid on, a poor layer will have gaps regardless. The hollows in the floor are also no issue as a competent layer will make sure the boards are pulled down onto the glue while it sets off. Once the glue is set you'll never lift the board. And the insulation factor??? I don't know about that. The concrete in a house stays pretty constant in temp as it is sitting on the ground. I would seriously doubt you could feel the difference between the 2 methods in blind testing, or maybe that's because I'm in Perth and we dont get as cold. Plank on ply also has the issue of height variation between other floor finishes. B Star, the only area I could possibly see plank on ply having the advantage is with the fixings. Direct stick requires the use of 3mm concrete nails to hold it down where as plank on ply can be nailed with a pin gun so the fixings are less obvious. However you dont need that many nails to hold the boards with direct stick (the glue does all the work) and after being filled and coated you hardly notice them anyway. For the price difference I just cant see any practical reason to add the ply into the mix. I could have laid either method in our new home but just went with direct stick because it works and looks great. I'd dare the average person to look at our floor and be able to tell what method I used. Having said that our stairs are plank on ply as you need to box out the concrete steps to get them all the same size. Obviously anyway can do a rubbish job with any technique. However direct stick does require more technique and is more fiddly. Having done my own floor or could not even image trying to do direct stick. The force I was using to get the timber in place was unbelievable. But then again thinner boards dont go in as tight, so maybe you will not have that trouble. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 11Oct 19, 2011 9:55 am B Star. I dont understand why direct stick is any more fiddly or requires more technique. You still have to glue the timber to the ply exactly as you do with direct stick, you are just sticking it to plywood instead of concrete. You still need to do all the same cuts. The timber needs to be clamped up to keep the joints tight. It is exactly the same process just applying it to a different substrate. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 12Oct 19, 2011 10:15 am I guess it the clamping process. With plywood you dont need clamps. a block and hammer and a secret nailer is all you need. You can do a board at a time and insure the butt joints are nice and tight. Much more difficult with direct stick. I guess I was like you and had people tell me the same. However once I did it myself and realize the level of finish you can achieve is much better. 3 Years on the boards look exactly the same as when I laid them. They haven't moved one bit. I have seen direct stick floors and you get the gap in between the boards for direct etc to fall in to. When you clamp you can also have the board cupping. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 13Oct 19, 2011 3:16 pm MMmmmm, still not convinced. Maybe it just comes down to the skills of the layer. Perhaps for the DIY'er being able to work slowly one board at a time has it's advantages. Direct stick you tend to work in strips of 3-5 boards so you need to be able to get the boards down quickly and neatly, maybe that's a bit much when your not 100% competent. I was at a house the other day having a look at some cupboards and noticed how poor the flooring was laid (many gaps between boards), on speaking with the owner he said that it was plank on ply and had been laid by an experienced layer. When I asked him why he chose to go plank on ply he said he didn't know he just assumed it was better. I think many people assume that it is better without really knowing much about it. Maybe they have been "sold" on the idea by someone. I'm happy if someone wants to pay all the extra money for plank on ply but I know I can give people just as good a job and save them $$$. I was talking to my supplier last night (after yesterdays post) and asked him if he thought there is any advantage of plank on ply over direct stick. He said the only compelling reason to use plank on ply is if the concrete is in poor condition (the ply can help to even things up) or if you are using a very thin overlay (under 12mm) otherwise it is just a waste of money. This is coming from someone who would be happy to sell more materials if there was a valid reason. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 14Oct 19, 2011 8:42 pm thanks for the feed back guys,with going straight to concrete can you buy nails to fit a hidden nails nail gun? at my old house i laid boards over old boards and used the hidden nail nail gun which was fantastic. i was hoping to use it again but am not sure if there are such nails. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 15Oct 19, 2011 9:12 pm Donuts, when you direct stick you only nail the ends of boards around the perimeter and to pull the board down if there is a hollow in the concrete. To do this you drill through board and into concrete with a 3mm masonry bit and then hammer in a concrete nail. The floor sander will punch the nails and fill them. The glue holds the boards. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: solid timber boards on a slab 16Nov 16, 2011 1:20 pm we had Jarrah (solid planks) put down on the slab (with the green moisture barrier paint in between). We had NO problems with gaps or shifting... they were stunning and very quiet. If you put them on the ply wood you will get more 'noise'- some people like that because it is more 'authentic' but the conrete was perfect for us- but a little colder as well - I thought. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 17Nov 16, 2011 1:28 pm sienna81 we had Jarrah (solid planks) put down on the slab (with the green moisture barrier paint in between). We had NO problems with gaps or shifting... they were stunning and very quiet. If you put them on the ply wood you will get more 'noise'- some people like that because it is more 'authentic' but the conrete was perfect for us- but a little colder as well - I thought. You only get the noise when you have battons not solid ply. How long have your floors been down for. Re: solid timber boards on a slab 18Nov 16, 2011 1:48 pm Im thinking to save cost and still be rather effective.. Is tongue/groove strandwoven bamboo as a floating floor a good option on a slab? I'd still lay a plastic moisture barrier and click the bamboo together. If your floor is uneven then you'd still put a self leveller on but it would still be more economical than having to put a sealant on, ply/battens then the timber board. Building with Jandson Homes - Eclipse 18. http://adgnetworks.blogspot.com/ solid timber boards on a slab 19Nov 16, 2011 2:37 pm Hi We are doing tongue and groove bamboo direct stick - no need for battens or ply. I had a floating floor in my last house and we didn't like the creaking. Paul Re: solid timber boards on a slab 20Nov 16, 2011 4:28 pm But if you direct stick then you'll most likely need self levelling compound as well as painting on a moisture sealant. Did you use these prep methods? Otherwise i hear that the boards will warp due to the moisture sweating from the slab. Building with Jandson Homes - Eclipse 18. http://adgnetworks.blogspot.com/ 4 6008 Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 15884 If this is a custom build then I would expect the builder to set out the door frame closer to the wall to avoid the gap between architrave and the wall and or specify… 9 8288 |