Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Oct 31, 2010 10:13 pm We have been going through a lengthy process of selecting the porcelain tiles for our new home and I thought I would share our experiences so far as well as seek some advice. We started out being quite keen on Chinese porcelain tiles largely due to their lower cost and many attractive styles. We also looked at Italian tiles but the cost made them a less attractive option. After a little research and due to another party's bad experiences, we became a little concerned about the quality of the Chinese tiles and began to take a closer look. We decided we should try some tests on the tiles. We obtained a range of samples from a couple different suppliers - all up roughly 10 different tiles that we liked - some polished and some matt. We then tested the tiles using spots of red wine, beetroot, highlighter pens and toothpaste. We did several time tests - summarised as 15 minutes, 1 hour, 6 hours and 24 hours. The results of these tests were quite conclusive for individual tiles but not for country of origin. Some tiles performed very poorly suffering staining in only 15 minutes of exposure. Some performed very well and had no signs of staining after 24 hours. From the tests we could not say conclusively that all Italian tiles performed much better than Chinese tiles. One Italian tile stained within 15 minutes. One Chinese tile type went 24 hours without any staining. However there was a tendency for some of the Chinese tiles to perform very poorly whilst the Italian tiles tended to be more resistant to staining. In our selection of tiles we had one Chinese tile that we knew was a second - it suffers from a hazy surface. We had another Chinese tile that was reasonably expensive, had survived the stain test and we quite liked. We were almost about to select it for our house. However my wife put both tiles in our existing bathroom to see how they looked. By pure fluke I came along and put on the bright IXL heater/light. We immediately noticed that the reasonably expensive Chinese tile also had a hazy surface under certain light conditions - but not all light conditions. It was a big letdown. So we decided we just could not take the risk with Chinese tiles - once a tile is laid we are very unlikely to ever remove it - so we have to get it right. We also decided against going for gloss finished tiles - deciding to opt for a matt finish. We settled on Italian tiles and selected a tile recommended by our local tile shop. It is a very good tile, very tough though quite expensive and very slippery. I have been told (not by the tile shop) that it has a glaze on the surface (not sure about that) and I suppose this could be why it is very very slippery. We were about to buy the Italian tiles when someone pointed us in the direction of an alternative range of tiles coming out of the UAE - by RAK Ceramics. So we took a look and we were happy with what we saw. We put them through the stain test and they came through with flying colours. Further they have far better grip than the Italian tile we had selected and cost less. Has anyone had any experience or comments on the tiles being produced by RAK Ceramics? Supposedly they are one of the largest tile manufacturers in the world but I can find very little commentary on the quality of their tiles. Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 2Nov 01, 2010 7:37 am I wrote you a reply, but didn't notice I didn't save it !!! Anyway, I'll cut it short this time. Are you talking about floor tiles? If yes, have you tested any other characteristic apart from staining? Resistance to scratching would be very important IMO. Here is a good resource http://www.beaumont-tiles.com.au/tech/selection.html. Have the shops given you the hardness rating for each tested tile? I guess this info might be unavailable in many smaller shops. Sometimes all info you get is the material and the price Also to consider is where are the tiles going to be installed. For example, kitchen and living can be more prone to food staining than, say, entrances, while entrances are more prone to scratching (for floor tiles). BTW, I thought that most tiles we can find here are manufactured in Malaysia (apart from Italy and China). Have you tested any of those? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 3Nov 01, 2010 9:22 pm Thanks for the suggestions/comments. The tiles from the UAE are grade 4. We did do some scratch testing at first but have not followed through with it for all the tiles. We will do some more scratch testing. I also used a hammer to break the edges of a couple tiles to check the consistency of the tiles. Has anyone used tiles from the UAE? Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 4Nov 02, 2010 6:16 am Obviously I haven't used them, but their web site says "The Company has subsidiaries in Germany, UK, Italy, Belgium, Georgia, Australia, China, India, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Bangladesh & Iran." China apparently has the largest plants capacity. Hopefully wherever they are manufactured, they follow the same process and are of same quality . Anyway, can you tell me where did you find them (which shop/s)? I might pay them a visit as we are also in the market for good tiles. And, I'll just assume that you are in Sydney hahaha My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 5Nov 03, 2010 2:15 pm I just placed an order for 85sqm of polished porcelain made by RAK Ceramics. We compared them with other and we're pretty happy with the looks, quality, and price. By the way, i just came back from a trip to Malaysia for a friend's wedding, and was surprised to see that most people's homes and shopping malls have large polished porcelain tiles. Its so common over there compared to here. 12 March 2010 - Land titles received 3 April 2010 - Signed building contract 14 April 2010 - Prestart 28 April 2010 - Loan approved 30 June 2010 - Slab completed 27 August 2010 - Brickwork completed 22 September 2010 - Roofing completed 30 September 2010 - Internal walls plastered 12 October 2010 - Lock Up 19 November 2010 - PCI 26 November 2010 - Handover 29 December 2010 - Moved In https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32584 Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 7Nov 05, 2010 12:30 am aLLaNNa1 I just placed an order for 85sqm of polished porcelain made by RAK Ceramics. We compared them with other and we're pretty happy with the looks, quality, and price. By the way, i just came back from a trip to Malaysia for a friend's wedding, and was surprised to see that most people's homes and shopping malls have large polished porcelain tiles. Its so common over there compared to here. Which ones did you select? Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 9Nov 05, 2010 8:25 am I am glad you stayed away from China imports specially polished porcelain we are seeing to many dramas with these so called seconds they are also known as commercial grade. We always get the calls cloudy haze, cloudy bloom and do not get me started on nano sealers this is a marketing tool they use to trick future customers. In a nut shell stay away from any tiles made from China I understand there cheap but that is for a reason poor quality and unhappy customers. There are some great polished porcelains we clean and restore they look absolutley fantastic a good quality porcelain from Italy or Spain you can not go wrong and if you are worried about how they look at home grab a spare take it home clean it and lay it down where the light comes through the home (window) maybe a hallway or near a sliding door you should see a nice mirror type polish or reflection. I would suggest not to buy matt finish tiles they are a maintenance nightmare. I love the new ceramics with a natural stone design ( pattern ) I also recommend polished ceramic yes can be slippery but not a big deal really and have plenty of spare left over just in case you drop something heavy. Hope this helps Craig Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 10Nov 05, 2010 9:53 am Grout Perfect I am glad you stayed away from China imports specially polished porcelain we are seeing to many dramas with these so called seconds they are also known as commercial grade. We always get the calls cloudy haze, cloudy bloom and do not get me started on nano sealers this is a marketing tool they use to trick future customers. In a nut shell stay away from any tiles made from China I understand there cheap but that is for a reason poor quality and unhappy customers. There are some great polished porcelains we clean and restore they look absolutley fantastic a good quality porcelain from Italy or Spain you can not go wrong and if you are worried about how they look at home grab a spare take it home clean it and lay it down where the light comes through the home (window) maybe a hallway or near a sliding door you should see a nice mirror type polish or reflection. I would suggest not to buy matt finish tiles they are a maintenance nightmare. I love the new ceramics with a natural stone design ( pattern ) I also recommend polished ceramic yes can be slippery but not a big deal really and have plenty of spare left over just in case you drop something heavy. Hope this helps Craig Thanks for the helpful comments. We are swinging back to the polished/gloss ceramic tiles though we are concerned about how slippery they are. What are the maintenance issues with matt tiles? I had thought matt tiles would be easier to maintain but it sounds like I have that one wrong. Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 11Nov 05, 2010 11:58 am All tiles that have a matt finish can be harder to maintain due to how porous the tile is. The glazed or polished tiles a great to maintain they are normally 100% non porous therefore nothing will stick and if it does it can be easily removed. The most calls we get for tile cleaning are matt finish tiles and tiles that have low pits or some type off crevice these pits and crevices make it very hard to clean but using a towel straight after helps a lot to remove the residue if the floor is let to dry out on its own than this will create dirty looking tiiles. I understand about the polished tiles being slippery but only when they are wet but it is not that bad as you might think, our customer do not complain about this being a problem we always advice to use rugs in wet areas and entry points. I will reply again with our maintenance procedures for tile and grout. Craig Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 12Nov 05, 2010 11:59 am How To Maintain and clean your tile and grout on a regular basis! Step 1.[/b] [b]Vacuum or wipe the surface to get rid of dust or grit that could scratch. Step 2. Damp clean Clean the area with a damp (not wet) mop – preferably microfiber. Add some neutral pH 7 chemical to your warm water, such as Grout Perfects maintain. The mop will ‘grab’ the surface and lift off most daily grime. Use some pressure to work the mop! Than dry the floor with a bath towel or terry towel, (try not to let the area you just cleaned dry on its own!) This is a very important step in keeping tiled floors and grout squeaky clean. Tip! Once you wet mop a floor the dirt is now emulsified and towel drying will remove the now dirty liquid leaving your tile and grout clean and free off contamination. Remember moisture evapourates dirt does not. Whatever chemical you use, make sure to read the label first to ensure that it is a pH 7 Neutral floor cleaner as higher pH chemicals can re soil floors faster due to not being rinsed off after use. Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 13Nov 05, 2010 9:05 pm Thanks Grout Perfect - we are finding your comments to be extremely helpful. We have now performed the red wine test on both the matt and the gloss version of the same tile. The matt version of the tile survived 24 hours with no marking. The gloss version suffered minor staining after 24 hours. This would suggest the matt version of the tile is less porous than the gloss version. Another question, would you recommend sealing the gloss tiles? Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 14Nov 06, 2010 12:03 am An article I found on the staining and polished v unpolished (matt) porcelain tiles. I hope this helps. Is Polished Porcelain more easily stained? There are two contrasting views on this issue in the marketplace. 1. Polished Porcelain does not stain because the polish is a sealer. This is of course incorrect as the polished surface is not a coating or protective sealer of any type. 2. Polished Porcelain stains more easily than unpolished. This is based on experience and field testing and is in fact the case. So why does a polished version of the same porcelain stain more easily than its unpolished cousin? I was reading an old article I had archived the other day – Stain Resistance of Porcelain Stoneware Tile - compiled by Leonardo Esposito and several of his colleagues from the Ceramic Centre Bologna Italy. It addressed the testing methods used to ascertain stain resistance on porcelain tile - standard ISO 10545-14 Ceramic Tiles- Part 14 Determination of Resistance to Stains. Most importantly it commented that the implementation of the tests revealed Polished Porcelain stained more easily than its unpolished counterpart. The reasons for this conclusion were summarised as being due to two factors: 1. Flaws in the production technology and 2. Flaws in the polishing process. So what are these flaws and how do they result in Polished Porcelain being more susceptible to staining? Flaws in Production Technology: When a ceramic tile is fired, the clay body and or glaze go through a sintering process. The individual particles become bonded to each other creating a much denser material. Due to the amount of silica in the clay, the body becomes a glass or vitrified. The amount of vitrification is related to (other than clay composition) the temperature of the kiln and the total amount of time exposed to this temperature. With modern fast firing kilns, porcelain tiles are fired at approximately 1200 degrees Celsius, a perfect temperature for good vitrification. However the firing process is complete in around 60 minutes and sometimes as little as 45 minutes. The result is the surface is more vitrified than the inner body and most importantly the vitrified surface layer is only microns thick. When porcelain is polished the thin denser vitrified layer is ground away exposing a percentage of the more porous inner body and hence increasing the ability to absorb liquids. It is this phenomenon that is referred to as a production technology flaw. Flaws in the Polishing Process: This refers to the inability of the polishing process to leave the surface totally flat and without cracks or surface defects. Porcelain is polished using the same method as natural stone. This involves continuous grinding of the surface using ever increasingly finer grinding (polishing) blocks. In the case of porcelain these are made out of silica-carbide. However the damage created by the initial coarse grind is not totally repaired by the subsequent finer polishing blocks leaving small lateral cracks, cuts and scratches. This micro damage is further exaggerated by the partial removal of the vitrified surface layer which exposes the more porous inner body that in turn cannot be ground totally flat. Add these two flaws together and the result is a porcelain tile that after polishing has a thinner vitrified surface layer that has been ground during the polishing process exposing inner pores as well as small surface and subsurface micro-cracks. It is this porosity combined with the micro-cracks that allows liquids to penetrate. Moreover the lateral cracks make it difficult to remove the contaminants and hence the resulting stains. This also explains why the “honed” or “satin” finishes mark or stain more easily than unpolished versions. They undergo the same process as the fully polished tiles but do not use the complete range of fine grinding blocks, resulting in a surface that has even more imperfections than the fully polished versions. Not all porcelain is created exactly the same. Some use higher quality clays in combination with higher compression during the pressing process and this along with the firing creates a thicker vitrified surface layer. The result is a Polished Porcelain that is going to be less easily stained. However ultimately with the current technology used in both manufacturing and polishing porcelain, the result will be a polished version more susceptible to staining than the unpolished version, it is only be a matter of degree. Can the polished versions be protected to clean more like their unpolished counterparts? Yes. Sealers are available to reduce the porosity of the Polished Porcelain. Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 15Nov 06, 2010 6:11 am Very good article. I think this is a good place to add this question. I noticed on some (more expensive, Italian) tiles that almost all edges of certain polished and sealed tiles have an irregular-shaped strip which is dull and not shiny as the rest of the tile surface is. It's almost like someone used a super fine sanding paper and removed some 5mm +/- of the shine almost everywhere along the edges of each individual tile. I noticed this on some tiles sold by DiLorenzo, but haven't seen it on those at Beaumont Tiles. If you lay those tiles, each tile would have this very noticeable lack of shine on edges. I wonder what is that and if it can be wiped off or fixed in any way? I did try to scrub it with my finger, with no effect. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 17Nov 07, 2010 8:19 am That previous article is quite long winded. Here's what I've learnt. For unglazed tiles, polished tiles stain more easily than matt tiles. We have to differentiate between staining and getting dirty. Staining penetrates the tiles and is difficult to clean. Dirty is just the surface film which can be wiped off. The reason polished tiles stain more easily is simple. When a tile comes out of the kiln (matt finish) the surface is completely sealed (a bit like smoothed concrete). When you polish the surface, you open up the microscopic pores. So, it's counterintuitive that matt stains less than polished, but when you think about it, it makes sense. I've used matt tiles in all my tiled areas except for bathrooms (where I liked the glazed look). These tiles will wear very well (they are full bodied, meaning that it's the same material all the way through). When selecting a tile, there are many more things other than stain resistance that will determine quality. Look at: 1) Flatness of the tile (put a straight edge on it). 2) Squareness of the tile (digital callipers are great for this) 3) Consistency of the edge mitring The Italian tiles are generally better (mine are form Italy). They cost more, but it's false economy to try to save $20 on porcelain tiles. It costs about $60/m2 to lay porcelain tiles. So if you buy $30 per square meter porcelain tiles you're up for $90/m2. Spending an extra $20/m2 on tiles (40% more) only costs 22% more overall. And this is before screeding, waterproofing, etc which makes the difference even less. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 18Nov 07, 2010 11:58 am Great summary Casa2 - thanks. Here is a summary of what we have found in regards to cost: Porcelain tiles from China ~ $30/m2. Porcelain tiles from UAE ~ $40/m2 plus. Porcelain tiles from Italy ~$50/m2 plus. One of the tiles we have been looking at is a glazed porcelain tile from Italy. We were told it was porcelain with colour right through and it came through the 24hr stain test with flying colours. On closer inspection we noticed it was glazed. It is an excellent tile but the glazing does mean that if the surface is damaged then the surface below does not exactly match the glazing. Also it is quite slippery - probably as slippery as polished porcelain. The glazed porcelain seems to sit in the middle between matt and gloss porcelain. Its stain resistant like the matt tile, its appearance is about halfway between a matt and a gloss look and its almost as slippery as a gloss tile. But its also the most expensive and there is a colour/patter difference between the glaze surface and the porcelain below. In the end our decision came down to the heart vs the head. The heart said go for the polished porcelain due to its superior look. The head said go for the more stain resistant matt porcelain with far better grip. (Separately I am a little concerned that the gloss look may become a liability in the long term much like many of the other fashionable tiles of the past). So we have settled on matt porcelain for the bulk of the house. We are still to decide on the bathroom area - we prefer the brighter look of the gloss tiles in the bathroom area. Due to the smaller area of the bathrooms, having them sealed is not such an issue. But we may take the middle ground and go for glazed porcelain or stick with the less slippery matt tiles in the wet area. Everyone has different requirements which would influence their decision. For example: If you were building a property to sell quickly you may go for gloss porcelain because it looks fantastic and doesnt cost the earth. If you were building a property for an elderly person you may go for the matt porcelain because of its far superior grip. If you were building a property that will house young kids you may go for a matt or glazed porcelain due to the stain resistance. I have found this discussion very helpful. Re: Porcelain tiles - Italy v China v UAE 20Nov 08, 2010 7:30 am webzone you said it yourself your matt tiles have better grip this is a concern better grip means dirt will grip too, we see this everyday customer always complain about trying to keep it clean I understand matt finish tiles do not stain but so does polished or glazed tiles be careful in your choice if you like matt finish than thats great but I have warned you guys take care. Craig Firstly the ableflex that has been installed needs (manufactures specification) a sealant cap over the top, preventing water draining down between the slab and the… 3 7744 Our house was completed 8 years ago. Builder did not leave any spare roof tiles behind. Just found out that one tile is cracked. Wanted to replace the tile but most… 0 2767 1 15704 |