Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Sep 21, 2010 4:48 pm Where to start. We are currently building our first home and have had a trouble free building experience until now. We took a long time to pick our tiles and ended up with 300x600mm porcelain tiles. They looked great and matched our interior. The tiler started laying them last week while I was at work and didnt get to see them till friday. Wasnt that a suprise. They had laid around 80sqm of the total 95sqm and they look terrible. The tiles themselves are all faulty they have a pretty substantial bow, this is made worse as we wanted them laid in a brick pattern. I wouldnt mind knowing where I stand with this. I had words with the tiler asking why he wouldnt have let me know about the problem. He said he spoke to the builder and was instructed to try and do his best with what he had. I still cant believe 1, that the supposedly A grade tile can be so bad and 2, they were laid. It looks like I am going to have to rip up 95sqm of tiles. Any tips for this. Pics Below http://picasaweb.google.com/James.Wither/Home# Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 2Sep 21, 2010 6:12 pm I am not a tiler, nor am i in the tile industry, but I am in the flooring industry (carpet, timber, laminate, vinyl, rugs) and if I served up something like that for one of my customers I would be in deep strife ! I don't know the standards that apply to a tiled floor, but I wuld guess that they are not that poor as to deem that a normal or adequate installation. Consumer Law in all states requires that the goods you buy must be A) of merchantable quality, B) be fit for purpose, C) do what they are supposed to do and D) are the same as the sample you bought from. I would think it could be argued that they are NOT of merchantable standard, that they are NOT fit for the prupose of walking on (trip hazards), that they do not do what they are supposed to do (they are not laid flat so are both physically an eye-sore and are dangerous) and if you purchased from a sample board, I bet they don't look like the sample you purchased from! So your builder can either replace them or you can take him to Consumer Affairs (in VIC its called VCAT for a cost of about $39) and I wouldn't think you would lose. Problem is it takes maybe 6-8 months wait to get a hearing date, so hopefully your builder is sensible and just fixes it. I bet the tiler, who maybe did try his best with rotten materials (I don't know, maybe it was the tilers fault too....I don't know much about tiles) - anyway, I bet the buidler hang him out to dry and blames him for it !!! Good luck. Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 3Sep 21, 2010 7:50 pm That doesn't look to flash.. Your tilers excuse is laughable, If hes good at what he does he would have stopped straight away after a few square meters. I'm betting he looked at 90 odd squares of porcelain and thought cha ching, don't wont to give this job up. The builder telling him to 'do his best' is believable, i get told that all the time when i ring up head office and advise of a faulty carpet or poor subfloor for vinyl. I believe they have a 'get it down and worry about it later' mentality. Strangely this seems to only apply to builders contracts. Your tiler would almost definitely be a sub contractor, and as subbies we know what we can get away with, and what we cant. We also know that once we lay a faulty product it becomes our problem. There is a big problem with this floor, but as far as i can see, it wont be your problem to solve, your builder the supplier and the installer will have to nut this one out. Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 4Sep 22, 2010 11:02 am WTF? Sorry, but I couldn't believe when I looked at the pics that they were laid. Did they think you wouldn't notice?? I am hoping that the tiler is a subby for the builder & that the builder bought the tiles & not you. Otherwise it gets a bit messy. The tile places always have a disclaimer about checking before laying & in this instance they should not have been laid. Hopefully the tile place will still replace them - and hopefully your builder will do what's necessary to get new ones laid ASAP. Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 5Sep 23, 2010 5:59 pm WOW!!! I have been present when consumer affairs have conducted an onsite mediation due to "faulty tiles" They measure the difference in height between the two adjacent tiles as you have done. If the surfaces differ more than 2mm then it is classed as a defect as per the "Guide to Standards & Tolerances 2007" I hope that things work out in your favour Dangerjim. Good luck Dirk Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 6Oct 02, 2010 10:15 am Firstly all tiles are made to a tolerance. All tiles especially glazed tiles can have a bow generally high in the middle - this is usally never noticed when laid side by side. Now as a tile shop owner I know the nature of the materials I sell. When you lay a large rectangular tile in a brick pattern you actually double the bow - as the high spot of one tile is up against the low spot of the next tile. So say the tile has a tolerance of 1.5mm when you brick it you generate a 3mm step - this is called basket weaving. Firstly- your tile shop should have made you aware of the possibility of this happening depending on the material chosen. I also recommend against it as I sell tile as long as 1200mm. Secondly - your tiler/builder should have stop and raised this problem striaght away. Thirdly - measure the bow - this is done by laying two tiles back to back then halfing the difference. Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 7Oct 05, 2010 7:34 am What a hack job that is, by the looks of it the tiler did not screen your floor first they should have installed a leveling compound first that way those pita tiles would have layed perectly flat Marble tile installers know this. Yes your tiler is at fault here, rip up and start again is the only way laying 600 x 300 or 600 x 600 it is a must in having a level substrate his excuse is appalling in saying that yes if the tiles a bowed than it will create that finish. Have you tested a tile on a flat surface to see if it is flat?? The tiler should have stopped once he noticed this that is a no brainer. Craig Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 8Oct 06, 2010 1:42 pm After looking at your post, I've been a bit put off going brick bond pattern. I've just been back from the tile shop and they warned me about bowing and that generally all long (>60cm) rectangular tiles bow a little in the middle. If they were stacked you wouldn't notice them. We put some down on a bench top to see and you can tell a slight difference in height between a tile's edge abutted against a tile's middle. So, sadly, I don't think it has much to do with the tiler, but ideally they would have noticed pretty quickly and given you a call to see if you wanted to continue, go stacked formation or just change tile. Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 9Oct 06, 2010 3:08 pm After hours of investagation with my tile gurus they tell me it is not a common thing for tiles that are 600x300 to bow they say it all comes down to quality, the top quality tiles have a 2% ratio of bow tiles that is out off say 20 boxes or 100 m2 floor. The cheaper quality tiles a prone to bow 70% ratio depending which country they came from. They also tell me the tiler should not have laid them and that the builder in this instance is liable because he gave to go ahead even after the tiler rang him about the bowing. Craig Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 10Oct 07, 2010 8:19 am I agree with Craig. Though there is a possibility of slight bowing, I have never seen it with good quality tiles. I have stone tiles 1 metre long. I didn't want a brick bond pattern, but it was pointed out to me that there can be issues with slight bowing that makes the brick pattern more difficult. By slight I mean maybe 2mm across a 1m tile. Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 11Oct 07, 2010 3:56 pm Sorry to disagree but the quality of a tile has nothing at all to do with the ratio of tiles out of tolerance you get in a batch - this will have to due with the grading of a tile - first, second, commercial etc. The manufacturer will have a set tolerance (usually an ISO) to work too - If its out of tolerance it is no good...fullstop. The quality of the tile comes down to whether it is within in the tolerances. Last time I checked I think ISO10545-2 (standard my Spanish manufacturer works to) was +or - 0.3 or 0.5 %. Now on a 300x300 thats only .9mm, but as the same tolerance is for all sizes on a 600mm thats 1.8mm and then you brick it you make it 3.6mm. I must say I have never seen one that bad but case in point thats a standard thet a European manufacturer works too. The betteer the quality of the tile the closer to zero it is....but you can't say a bowed tile is a faulty one either. Dont qoute me on those specs as they are a little while back. Now looking at those floor tiles they are definetly a joke. I import top quality Spanish tiles. They to are made to a tolerance - and even though its a top quality product I make my clients aware of a tolerance and the fact you double it by laying it in a brick pattern. With the example of the 1m stone tile (which shoukld be perfect as it is cut natural stone not something fired) with 2mm bow - well if you brick bond that you will have a 4mm step. For exampkle I import a tile 150mmx900mm long. The manufacturer specifies that it should have no more than a 200mm offset - no way 450mm (half the tile). Now I have never seen one with a bow of more than 1mm over 900mm which is exceptional - but still I hammer home to my clients it must not be offset more than 200mm. You find that glazed tiles tend to have a greater chance of this happening to full body vitrified tiles. So firstly the tiles in the picture should never have been laid and are definelty excessively bowed - out of tolerance. But I Stress that the client should be made aware of the limitations of the product they are using. I cannot tell any of my clients that the tile what ever country of origin or price will never have no bow, cause its not true. But also what we have above is a disgrace and should nver ever happen.....no excuses. Re: Terrible, Terrible Tiles! Cant believe they have been la 12Oct 07, 2010 6:13 pm Dangerjim, Those tiles/laying are terrible. If it wasn't a brick pattern, you probably wouldn't notice. It's certainly the tiles that are at fault, but as others have said, a good tiler would have stopped and got the owner to check it out. 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