Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Jun 08, 2010 9:26 pm Hi, Just wondering if you forum members can give me some advice. We are currently building our home in Caroline Springs, West Sub of Melbourne. We are currently looking in laying timber floor in our dining, kitchen, living and entry at total of 63m2 But we are undecided in the raw solid timber which will need to be laid, sanded and then polished. Maybe the prefinished solid timber which will need to be laid and that's it. See link for example. http://www.nicefloorwarehouse.com/produ ... imber.html Just wondering if anyone has installed prefinished solid timber floor and their opinion. The cost for prefinished timber in Spotted Gum or Blackbutt is $68.00/m2 and about $45.00/m2 to install with plywood. The cost for raw timber in Spotted Gum or Blackbutt is $80.00/m2 and about $77.00/m2 to install (plywood, moisture barrier, sand and polish. Can anyone recommend anyone for timber floors and installation around the West Subs of Melbourne. Thanks again for your help. Sam Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 2Jun 12, 2010 8:35 pm hi there, I just got my floors done, i'll PM who i used. Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 3Jun 14, 2010 3:22 pm I would be worried about the prefinished timber getting scratched etc during installation Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 4Jun 14, 2010 10:48 pm Thanks again for the reply. We have done a 360 turn now. I on the weekend we went to look at carpet for the bedroom. During the visit we look at tiles and my partner loved these tiles with was a 60x60 polished porcelin taupe tiles. So now we changed our mind and are going for tiles. Thanks everyone who replied. Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 5Jun 18, 2010 7:13 pm Bam I would be worried about the prefinished timber getting scratched etc during installation Also there is no tolerance for variances in the floor itself as it can't be sanded flat after laying. Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 7Aug 25, 2010 5:35 pm ^ I believe he means without losing the existing finish. If you were going to sand them back in order for them to be uniformly flat, it would require it to be polished again.... in which case it is pointless ordering prefinished Am I right Dukey?! Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 8Aug 26, 2010 12:12 am Bam ^ I believe he means without losing the existing finish. If you were going to sand them back in order for them to be uniformly flat, it would require it to be polished again.... in which case it is pointless ordering prefinished Am I right Dukey?! Oh~ I see what you saying, thanks! I've just checked our contract and it says; • Select Grade Spotted Gum 85 x 14, secret-nail • 19mm sheet - Panel Floor Flooring • Sanding & Polishing Floor and 3 Coats Polyurethane High Gloss <- So obviously it's raw timber boards, not pre-finished! YES! And 19mm Sheet must refers to 19mm Plywoods underlay? We're putting SG all downstairs (except bathroom, laundry) and 1st floor hall way. Do you reckon they would be sticking floor boards directly on the slab for downstairs and use 19mm ply for upstairs application? I'll have a chat with my builder and try to widen the boards to 130mm! I promise to upload pics once I got them done for everyone! (We're at Frame stage now so it's still a fair bit away though..haha) Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 9Aug 26, 2010 8:07 am I've just checked our contract and it says; • Select Grade Spotted Gum 85 x 14, secret-nail • 19mm sheet - Panel Floor Flooring • Sanding & Polishing Floor and 3 Coats Polyurethane High Gloss <- You have the so-called overlay flooring, which is still full timber, but thinner - it's 14mm thick as opposed to traditional 19mm thick boards. It's hard to say what they planned to do with the 19mm panels - could be for the upstairs as subfloor since overlay is not a structural floor and has to have structural support. Which would mean that all areas upstairs would be about 14+19 mm high (in case you care about finished flooring heights where timber floor will meet carpets or tiles). It depends in which state you are (I'm guessing not in NSW), since some states prefer to direct stick overlay to concrete, so again, the 19mm ply is most likely for the upstairs. You are getting polyurethane, which has the toughest finish, but it is not recommended for new floors since new boards will move much more than old ones and polyurethane can bond them together and could cause cracks when the boards need to move. Also, polyurethane tends to yellow and darken the timber more. A good option is to use water based (eg. Bona Traffic), which is a bit more expensive, but of course it's up to your own preferences. Oh, and finally, the wider the boards, the more will the movement be noticeable - and especially with overlay. 130mm width would be better suited for 19mm thick timber IMO. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 10Aug 26, 2010 12:54 pm Lex [i] You are getting polyurethane, which has the toughest finish, but it is not recommended for new floors since new boards will move much more than old ones and polyurethane can bond them together and could cause cracks when the boards need to move. Also, polyurethane tends to yellow and darken the timber more. A good option is to use water based (eg. Bona Traffic), which is a bit more expensive, but of course it's up to your own preferences. Oh, and finally, the wider the boards, the more will the movement be noticeable - and especially with overlay. 130mm width would be better suited for 19mm thick timber IMO. Thanks Lex! I will have a chat with the builder to see what his plan is with 19mm ply. Now, as for water-based finish, I've heard people saying Water-based finish will shrink the timber, which leads to cracks eventually.. Can anyone please share their experience/knowledge? Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 11Aug 26, 2010 7:40 pm Honestly, I'd be more concerned about the size of your boards - 130 x 14 is not a good combination, unless it's the "roasted" type of flooring. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 12Aug 27, 2010 9:23 am Lex Honestly, I'd be more concerned about the size of your boards - 130 x 14 is not a good combination, unless it's the "roasted" type of flooring. Thx Lex, Can you explain why wider boards are more prone to movements? I don't get it... Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 13Aug 27, 2010 10:28 am Because boards expand / contract into their width (due to the way they are cut and the way timber is genetically coded ... there is more info on this in various timber manuals). The length-wise movement is negligible. The wider the board, the larger the visible effect of the expansion / contraction. Slimmer boards are, again, even more sensitive. I happened to have a look at some blackbutt displays yesterday. There were narrow and wide displays. The wide displays had very large gaps, the narrow ones barely noticeable. Visually (ignoring the gaps), the wide boards were also very much "craving attention" and "jumping at me" - which reaffirmed my preference for the look of narrow boards ... although it doesn't matter for this discussion My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 14Aug 30, 2010 10:43 am Hello everyone, Sorry to hijack this topic, but we are also undecided on whether to go raw or prefinished. I hope you can help me answer these questions. - With prefinished, as it's not sanded post installation, is it true that there will be visible grooves between each panel? (i.e. not totally smooth) - Is it true that for boards wider than 85mm, they cannot use secret nails to install? If anyone can recommend a solid floor timber place in Sydney with good price and workmanship, I would also very much appreciate it Thanks jim Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 15Aug 30, 2010 10:34 pm Yes, prefinished will have the visible grooves, ie. bevelled edges - at least I haven't been able to find any without them. A really big turn off .... Unfortunately, some quite good looking floaters also have bevelled edges (the thicker ones). Over 85 mm ... theoretically, Boral has some new fixing method (secret nailing), but the jury still seems to be out. Have a look at manuals on B's site ... My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 16Aug 31, 2010 9:48 am Thanks Lex, the beveled edge for pre-finished is a turn off, I really would like our floors to be perfectly flat with no grooves. Really appreciate your input, I might go for the raw timber then. cheers jim Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 17Sep 09, 2010 4:04 pm little buddy hi there, I just got my floors done, i'll PM who i used. hey buddy, could you PM me the contact of your floor person too please? i'm also plannining to do floating timber flooring. also, can someone please tell me floating timber is the same thing as engineered timber? i've been doing a lot of reading about timber flooring, and i think i'm experiencing information overload thanks! Signed: June 2010 | Settlement: September 2010 | Moved in: October 2010 Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 18Sep 09, 2010 4:33 pm bunnywabbit little buddy hi there, I just got my floors done, i'll PM who i used. hey buddy, could you PM me the contact of your floor person too please? i'm also plannining to do floating timber flooring. also, can someone please tell me floating timber is the same thing as engineered timber? i've been doing a lot of reading about timber flooring, and i think i'm experiencing information overload thanks! I think you are a tad confused! Floating timber is a flooring system that isn't physically joined to the substrate (ie the panels are interlocked to each other but not nailed or glued to the existing substrate, hence "floating" over the existing flooring). Usually it is layed over an underlay to minimise the hollow sound when you walk on it with high heels for example. Engineered timber is a board that is sandwich glued together to form one "solid" board (ie a MDF or ply piece is sandwiched between thin [4-5mm] veneers of the desirable wood like jarrah or spotted gum etc). Basically it is engineered to look and "feel" like solid timber but allegedly without the cost of solid timber. hope that helps. Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 19Sep 09, 2010 8:56 pm jimnsal Thanks Lex, the beveled edge for pre-finished is a turn off, I really would like our floors to be perfectly flat with no grooves. Really appreciate your input, I might go for the raw timber then. You're most welcome Jim, I've been through the flooring selection nightmare myself - the end result is ==> My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Raw solid Timber or Pre-finished solid timber 20Sep 09, 2010 9:36 pm Huggy_B I think you are a tad confused! Floating timber is a flooring system that isn't physically joined to the substrate (ie the panels are interlocked to each other but not nailed or glued to the existing substrate, hence "floating" over the existing flooring). Usually it is layed over an underlay to minimise the hollow sound when you walk on it with high heels for example. Engineered timber is a board that is sandwich glued together to form one "solid" board (ie a MDF or ply piece is sandwiched between thin [4-5mm] veneers of the desirable wood like jarrah or spotted gum etc). Basically it is engineered to look and "feel" like solid timber but allegedly without the cost of solid timber. hope that helps. Thanks for the clarification, B! You're right. I was confused Too much information in one day .. 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